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OK, so what does "hand made" really mean?

Well, I wasn't going to post on this thread because I really was on the fence, but fence-sitting never gets me anywhere, so .... here's my idea after much thought.

Hand made is when a person manually controls the actions of the machine instead of the machine being programmed. So I guess my thinking is that as soon as the machine automatically changes the direction of cut or changes the cutterhead or moves the workpiece to another cutter or machine, then it's no longer "hand-made", but now it's machine made, even if it's hand assembled.

Once we get into the domain of the "hand-made" piece, then we can differentiate between the various actions being hand or machine cut, but the bottom line is that a human touch is guiding each cut.

Anyway, that's it so far for me and my thoughts :).

cheers eh?
 
John Bartley said:
Hand made is when a person manually controls the actions of the machine instead of the machine being programmed. So I guess my thinking is that as soon as the machine automatically changes the direction of cut or changes the cutterhead or moves the workpiece to another cutter or machine, then it's no longer "hand-made", but now it's machine made, even if it's hand assembled.

Once we get into the domain of the "hand-made" piece, then we can differentiate between the various actions being hand or machine cut, but the bottom line is that a human touch is guiding each cut.
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Two words: "router template" :p

Your definition seems to exclude router-cut dovetails, or at least pushes them into a definite gray area:
it depends on a rather arbitrary definition of the word "automatically".
 
Lee DeRaud said:
Two words: "router template" :p

Your definition seems to exclude router-cut dovetails, or at least pushes them into a definite gray area:
it depends on a rather arbitrary definition of the word "automatically".
Click to expand...

Hehehe :) there's an agitator in every bunch .... (just kidding)

My thoughts were that hand made has a human starting, or guiding, or catching the workpiece or alternatively has a human guiding the tool, so even though you (and I) might use a template, the human hand guides the router through the motions and so while they are machine cut, I would call them handmade (after assembly), but not hand cut.

"Automatically", when referencing a machine would mean to me that either the workpiece or the machine would change operations (generally) without human intervention.

I get your point about the arbitrary/ambiguous definition of "automatic". It (hand made) is truly a hard term to define without delving deeply into the conditions/definitions that pertain to each word or action.

I'd better quit here ... I'm starting to confuse myself ... :doh:

cheers eh?
 
If no one will mind a slight "Kerry tangent"...

... what comes to your mind when you are at the grocery store, looking at a loaf of wheat bread (or a bag of whole-wheat flour or a box of healthy grain cereal, etc) and you read on the package that it's
STONE GROUND​
?

If you're like me, you'll conjure up an old-timey, water-wheel-powered mill. In some cases, I am even aided in doing this -- by a nice drawing of just such a mill on the package. I have no idea how the grain milling industry is run these days, but the left side of my brain struggles with what the right side seems only too eager to accept.

Can anyone speak from experience? And if what I suspect is true (stone-ground, yes, but on some pretty high-tech, precision, speedy equipment), does this have any bearing on the "hand made" topic when it comes to woodworking? :huh: :dunno: :huh:
 
John Bartley said:
My thoughts were that hand made has a human starting, or guiding, or catching the workpiece or alternatively has a human guiding the tool, so even though you (and I) might use a template, the human hand guides the router through the motions and so while they are machine cut, I would call them handmade (after assembly), but not hand cut.
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Well, leaving aside the definition of "automatic", in the case of router templates the human hand isn't guiding the tool: the guidance is "programmed" (for lack of a better word) into the template shape. All the hand is doing is providing the motive power.

The level of technology involved in template-routing is quantitatively different from using a ShopBot to rout the same shape, but it isn't qualitatively different.
Ian Barley said:
I actually really like the thought that has emerged in a couple of posts that , if one person takes something from raw material to finished product then its probably worthy of hand made as a moniker.
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Um, yes, well, for some (again) totally arbitrary definition of "raw material". (Yes, I know I myself lean toward that concept...but my definition of "raw material" is every bit as arbitrary as yours or anyone else's.)

And what then do you call it when a team of people with diverse skills collaborate to produce a one-of-a-kind artifact? The guys on "American Hotrod" or "American Chopper" come to mind. For that matter, Sam Maloof has a couple of extremely talented guys doing a bunch of the gruntwork involved in his furniture...and I doubt anyone would consider his stuff not to be "handmade".
 
Question being HANDMADE

So went to Goggle to find how many liers there are, here are the results............................

2,410,000 for handmade furniture.

Took 1.2 seconds to get the results

:lurk: :lurk: :lurk: :lurk:
 
Kerry Burton said:
If no one will mind a slight "Kerry tangent"...

... what comes to your mind when you are at the grocery store, looking at a loaf of wheat bread (or a bag of whole-wheat flour or a box of healthy grain cereal, etc) and you read on the package that it's
STONE GROUND​
?

If you're like me, you'll conjure up an old-timey, water-wheel-powered mill. In some cases, I am even aided in doing this -- by a nice drawing of just such a mill on the package. I have no idea how the grain milling industry is run these days, but the left side of my brain struggles with what the right side seems only too eager to accept.

Can anyone speak from experience? And if what I suspect is true (stone-ground, yes, but on some pretty high-tech, precision, speedy equipment), does this have any bearing on the "hand made" topic when it comes to woodworking? :huh: :dunno: :huh:
Click to expand...


Every summer there are those festivals where someone runs an old poper engine and grinds corn for "Stone Ground Meal" Yippee! it is so natural and fresh.... Wait a couple of days and see if the meal worms emerge... Stone ground means they used a genuine mill STONE in the process, rather it is an olde method of grinding or modern stone mills is determined by the company. Todays mills use a ceramic surface to make their wonders.
 
Am I the only one who sees the phrase "stone ground" and wonders what the maximum permissible amount of rock dust in bread is?

GF occasionally buys the "healthy" stuff that looks like somebody just threw the wheat through a tree chipper and then baked it...
life's too short for that. :eek:
 
Lee DeRaud said:
Am I the only one who sees the phrase "stone ground" and wonders what the maximum permissible amount of rock dust in bread is?

GF occasionally buys the "healthy" stuff that looks like somebody just threw the wheat through a tree chipper and then baked it...
life's too short for that. :eek:
Click to expand...
I've wondered the same thing about "stone ground", and also agree that that only chunks I want in the bread are from the chunky peanut butter, not the stems and seeds in the bread itself. :p
 
My career has been food science and food regulatory compliance and consultant work.

I cannot speak to all corn meal processors as I have not been to them all. Here in North Carolina, all of the corn meal processors I have visited use granite stones to grind the corn meal. These stones range from 3-4 feet in diameter and as much 18" thick. Each mill has two stones, one that revolves and one that is stationary. The top stone revolves and is adjustable in height and allows the miller to create corn meal, grits, or corn flour depending on how finely ground he adjusts the distance between the two stones.

The stones can be one single large round stone or pie shaped segments held together by a steel band. The stones have spiral grooves and channels which are cut into them into which the stream of corn flows. The corn enters into the center of the hole of the top stone and as it spirals outward from the center it is cracked and ground.

The grooves and channels are air hammer chiseled into the stones and a good miller will keep the edges of the grooves and channels sharp so that that they cut the corn rather than rub it. Most stones have to be sharpened at least once a week. I have been told that an experienced miller can feel the corn meal coming out of the mill and by the amount of heat in it, from friction, can tell when it is time to sharpen the stones. These huge stones are balanced just like car tires and a well balanced set of stones will run so true and free of vibration that a nickel can be stood on edge and remain standing while the stones are grinding corn. I found this unbelievable until I had it demonstrated to me by some of the millers I did business with.

As far as how much stone dust is allowable in stone ground corn meal? I have never seen that referenced in any of the regulations. The regulations address light and heavy filth, insect parts, rodent hairs and certain microbiological contaminants such as aflatoxin which is a chemical poison produced by certain species of molds that grow on corn.

Every mill I have visited was located near a stream or river and at one time actually used water as the source of power for their rocks. Again, I have not visited all of the mills but there are very few who actually use water power today. There is only one left in Eastern N.C. using water power but I understand there are others in the mountains still powered by water.
 
hand made

I'm new to this, but on hand made what is the difference in a hand saw or a router they are both tools, and they both need power. we just us e power now, time changes. I would say when the first hand saws were made there was the same discussion, and I bet if the Egyptians had a saw or router they would have used them :huh:
 
Ricky Guess said:
...I bet if the Egyptians had a saw or router they would have used them :huh:
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Of course they would have, all the proof you need is that WE use them, because we ARE the woodworkers of our time. We use what we have available to us just as the woodworkers before us used what was available to them.

What do you think the apprentice system was all about? They didn't have awesome machines so they had other people doing their work for them.

There is nothing wrong with using nothing but hand tools in honor of those who didn't have power tools, but don't think for a second that they would have been against using power tools if they had the choice. After all, that is why power tools were invented in the first place.

I think that the limits of "hand made" stop at CNC machines. But in all honesty, the moniker is all about pride, and not really a selling point.

The only people who care about quality craftsmanship are the craftsmen themselves and maybe a few rich snobs who think they are too good to spend their money on anything that isn't worth a fortune.
 
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