A home theater

Niki Avrahami said:

I'm watching and....learning...

For me, it looks like something from the "Fantasy world"...

Thanks for taking the time to post

Regards
niki

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Hi Niki ,
Thanks for letting me know you are out there! Sonetimes we just don't know if anyone cares what we are sharing. Wish the lurkers knew how encouraging just the words of "Thanks for typing" or whatever , means to the person writing the post!
Oh, by the way Niki, working on these kind of jobs for people who can afford stuff like this is like Fantasy World to me too! I can't afford this stuff in my house, so I am always thankful when I can do projects for others I can't do for myself. I especially like working for nice people. These folks are, as far as I have noticed, really very nice, polite and considerate.
Wishing you well,
Shaz

well shaz i must agree with your reply.

it is true most cabinet guys would take that approach. i try to be a little more sensitive to my customers needs, but some are not willing to pay for it. if you wanna nickel and dime me, then i can only provide so much assistance before i hurt my bottom line.

having said that, after seeing the previous work you have posted, i expected your answer to be what it was, seeing those individual face plates for each component made to fit so nice and tight, i actually want to do the same type of face plate for my brother's ent center...if we ever get started on the thing. it just looks so nice and clean

once again, things are looking good, thansk for the well thought out and extensive explanations of your work and the processes that take you through it.

hats off to you for going the extra mile
chris

Ed Nelson said:

I'm glad Chris asked the question and really like the response! Thanks. It really is the details that make the difference between a good piece of work and a great piece of work! I'm still learning the questions to ask!

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Hi Ed , Thank you for your valuable input.
By the time this theater is complete I will have learned how to build it.

Learning the right questions to ask is very important. Whether you are asking me, asking the client, or asking your spouse! Most men I know are starting at square one with what to ask.
You are on the right trail Ed!
Shaz

Chris Mire said:

well shaz i must agree with your reply.

it is true most cabinet guys would take that approach. i try to be a little more sensitive to my customers needs, but some are not willing to pay for it. if you wanna nickel and dime me, then i can only provide so much assistance before i hurt my bottom line. ( Good for you Chris! it is important you know where to draw the line with clients or potential ones. A few years ago I realized that if I reduce my price I am the only one who loses. My quality remains the same, the materials are the same as those are the ones I think are right to do the job. The time isn't less and the client doesn't have me over weekly friendship and bar-b-que. So what did I get for cutting my price? Less money and a good night sleep? Shaz)
i actually want to do the same type of face plate for my brother's ent center...( let me know if I can be of assistance )
once again, things are looking good, thansk for the well thought out and extensive explanations of your work and the processes that take you through it. You are welcome...S

hats off to you for going the extra mile
chris

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Thanks Chris, It is the response from you and the others that makes me feel I am not writing notes on a desert island.
Shaz

Robert,
Thanks for posting this thread! Just letting you know I'm following every word and picture!

Lee

Hi Lee ,
Thanks for sharing your interest.
I appreciate your words.
Shaz
My plan is to build all the things that surround the screen physically so that I can assemble it and know the screen will work and the knock down procedure will go smoothly. I will be starting on the frieze and the tall speaker/storage/columns cabinets directly. I also need do the vertical stair step pillars that sit on the deck top and the doors for the cabinets below the screen.
Here is a funky rendition of how I intend to get the screen in place.

The 3/4" deck top is two pieces. The front piece will be fixed and have the curve of the cabinet overhanging the doors however the back of that very piece will be straight. The piece that goes on behind it will go on after the screen is set and secure. It will be flush to the same height as the front part of the deck top but will serve to close the opening in the top, rear of the cabinets that I was needed to insert the screen on the diagonal.

The 3/4" deck top is two pieces. The front piece will be fixed and have the curve of the cabinet overhanging the doors however the back of that very piece will be straight. The piece that goes on behind it will go on after the screen is set and secure. It will be flush to the same height as the front part of the deck top but will serve to close the opening in the top, rear of the cabinets that I was needed to insert the screen on the diagonal.
Here is a pic of the deck top front piece. It needed joined in the middle so I ran a chalk line on the cabinets, screwed down some blocks on that chalk line, to keep it straight. then screwed down the deck top and handsawed a common kerf in the existing crack to assure me of a tight fit. It has the 1/2 round poplar banding on it.
You can see it is joined in the center with corregated fasteners, front faced with the poplar band and then I added a support under the joint and spanning the two pieces, cut to seat the deck top into the existing underlayer.

Robert Schaubhut said:

handsawed a common kerf in the existing crack to assure me of a tight fit.

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That's a trick I'd forgotten! Thanks for reminding me. I have never had much luck using those corrugated fasteners either. The project is looking good!

Ed Nelson said:

I have never had much luck using those corrugated fasteners either. The project is looking good!

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Hi Ed ,
That kerf sawing is sometimes the only way to get a straight joint, and it is a nice to know you are already familiar with it. There have been times I would handsaw the crack while the boards were tight, then when I cut through, I would again snug up the boards and re cut. Sometimes with a wide gap I have cut up to 7 times to get the boards lined up. Not 7 times due to error but tighten the joint in alignment and touching points, saw through, squeeze joint together the thickness of the kerf, and recut keeping the boards in alignment. When cut through, squeeze boards together again the thickness of the kerf you just made and resaw...ETC. ETC. to fit.
Hey Ed... Have you ever used a pneumatic corregated fastener?
The one I have is a real power driver, just slams the 5/8" staples into the lumber and squeezes the crack too. My most ferocious hand held nailgun type thing. Oh and by the way...Great lookin Christmas pooch! Surprised Santa didn't take him back UP the chimney. ...S
Okay, since the holiday fog has not cleared from my mind yet full blown production has not yet returned however lets look at doors.

This is what we have to make as that is what they liked.
It is a basic bead on the interior edge of the door stiles and rails ( then throw the 1/4 round into the corner with bead ). Center will be a 1/2" baltic birch inset panel covered with acoustical grille cloth. First...Every thing has to be the same thickness ( stiles,rails and 1/4 round corner). The radius of the 1/4 round will be about 3".
How do we do that, keeping in mind that we need have it join up with the stiles and rails? Since there is such a great response to "Movie lines" I guess I should not answer this just yet. " I am not looking for an answer as I have already done what I needed to do, it is my intent to have those curious stimulated by the thought of what THEY would do given the real life situation. There are options. You don't need respond but once I throw out a solution your problem solving stimulation may be satisfied thus ending what may have been some rocket building revelation.
I will try to post my solution to this situation tomorrow.

Just so you know, I'm very much enjoying this thread, Shaz. Not saying much...I tend to learn more when I'm being quiet.

shaz,

if i know myself as well as i think i do, i would probably find the hardest, slowest and least accurate way to do this. so i'll keep my ideas to myself.

patiently waiting to find out how it should be done!!


ps. i showed my brother some of the pics on your website, specifically the ent centers where the tv is framed extra tight like a picture frame. he loved it, so i may be calling on your expertise in that area later down the road.

chris

Vaughn McMillan said:

Just so you know, I'm very much enjoying this thread, Shaz. Not saying much...I tend to learn more when I'm being quiet.

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Thanks Vaughn,
Even just a word is reassuring, I would imagine in most threads.

Chris Mire said:

shaz,

if i know myself as well as i think i do, i would probably find the hardest, slowest and least accurate way to do this. so i'll keep my ideas to myself.

patiently waiting to find out how it should be done!!
Thanks Chris ,
You give me too much credit. I will show you what I figured out I had to do to get it done and you can put it into your memory bank. I think retention of tools and tips, tricks of the trade, methods of work etc. and creation of jigs to do precise and repetitive work is essential....S


ps. i may be calling on your expertise later down the road. ( Feel free to do so, will be glad to help any way possible....S)

chris

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For me the corner was the determining factor as to how to build the doors.

How do we get a bead on the curved edge of a 1/4 round corner fill and still be able to inset a panel from the back side? I figured since the radius is about 3" it will be rather tight trying to mold the little pieces so I decided to make circles and see if that would work. First I surfaced all the poplar I would need (plus some) for the stiles, rails and corner fillers. Fortunately I got some nice 16' pieces 8" and 10" wide + or - 1/2" S2S straight line ripped. I gently surfaced them to be sure they were the same size.

I then pulled out some 1/2" medex( exterior sign grade MDF) to make a circle pattern about 6 1/2" d. The medex was about 13" wide. I will be using a mortising bit, 3" long, 1/2" cutter with a 1/2" shank in my router. I drilled a tiny hole 3 1/4" from the cutting edge of the router bit, through the wooden extended plate I have on this router. I then tapped a nail through from the underside and flipped the router over in order to mark the correct hole on the top side as I have a few holes in the plate already and don't want to get this hole confused. I then pulled the nail out from the bottom and reinserted it from the top of the plate.
This photo is a rigging of the router to work for me.
Next we have a photo of the setting on the router plate, that being the one we will use to cut a hole into which the circles will fit. I measured that hole to be drilled 3 1/4" from the far side of the cutting bit as that is the edge that will be determining our hole size.
We will be making several circles at 6 1/2"s and several holes in 1/2" medex that are 6 1/2" because some will most likely experience damage during use and we need to have one perfect at all times if for no other reason than to make a new pattern.
It is my intent to make full circles that I can mold as safely as possible.
I will cut the holes in the mdf first as that is to be my retaining jig for the circles. I will then cut circles to fit. These circles I will use as templates to then form exact duplicate circles out of some of the wide poplar I have surfaced.
Shaz

Making the circles or the holes is a good trick to have in your mental tool box.

#1 Make a wooden (I use 3/4" ply as I can attach extensions onto that ply) rectangle that is about 20" long and wide enough to mount your router to. (from this time on we will call this wooden piece the Plate).

#2 Put a mortising bit in your router. A 3 "X 1/2" shank with a 1/2" d cutter is what I use in this plunge router.

#3 Attach your router to the ( plate) rectangular 3/4 board at one end.


Wear your safety glasses

#4 Make sure the router is secure and the bit is in tight, now plunge the 1/2'' bit down through the ( plate ) 3/4" plywood that the router is attached to.

#5 With the router turned off, adjust the bit ( depth ) almost flush with the borrom of the plate, so it is just sticking out through the bottom of the plate about 1/8".

If you want to cut a 15" hole;

#6 lay the router and plate on their side with the router on the right and the majority of the plate to the left.

#7 Using a measuring device ( I use a Lufkin X46 6' Red End in these photos) measure, starting at the right side of the cutting bit, moving to the left 7 1/2" and make a mark. ( This will be the distance of half of a 15" hole ).


#7a. Take a # 6 (2") bright finish nail and cut off the head with your side cutters or what ever you use.

#8 Insert the headless nail into the chuck and drill/burn a hole through the 3/4" plate at the place marked ( 7 1/2 " ). Try your best to go straight through with your drilling. Don't force the nail just apply reasonable pressure.

#9 When drilling is complete retract the mortising bit so that the plate will sit flush on the table.

#10 Take a new, headed #6 bright finish nail and gently tap it into the pre drilled/burned hole in the plate, with the point headed toward the bottom of the plate.

#11 Get the piece you are intending to cut the hole into and consider how you can cut all the way through the piece without ruining something good supporting it. I usually elevate it on 3/4" sacrificial strips that stick out on the ends so I can secure the strips to my table with clamps or screws. If you use screws put none under the piece you are routing unless you are very sure of their placement and the routing path .

#12 Secure the piece with screws out side the finished hole and if you don't intend to use the circle secure it with screws too,

#13 Determine the center and make a mark.

#14 With and awl or a nail make an indentation for a starting point.

#15 Lift the plate and tap the nail through the plate at the 7 1/2" mark so about 1" of the point is sticking out. ( this makes it easier to get the nail centered on the piece you want to cut out.)

#16 Set the nail into the indentation and tap it in securely but not all the way through the piece you will be cutting.

#17 Swivel the router around in a counterclock wise manner to see what obstacles may hinder your path.

#18 Turn on the router, allow it to get up to speed, then plunge down about 1/4'' secure to that depth and revolve the plate and router to cut the first pass.

#19 When completed with the first pass, plunge a bit deeper and secure at depth, revolve again.


#20 Take your time and repeat plunging until all the way through.

#21 Your results should leave you with a 15" hole and a 14" circle.
What ever the results are, mark the nail hole on your plate with the exact finished dimensions it cut ( measured after you are finished) so you have that number accurately recorded.

Shaz
Next ...The circle to fit the hole.

Okay folks, lets have a go at that circle with a router.

#1 Get a #6 finish nail and cut the head off it.


#2 Take this headless nail and chuck it up in your drill.


#3 Measure, then mark the spot that will serve as the center point of your circle (the radius). I am measuring to 4 1/2" from that cutting edge of the router bit that will be cutting the circle rather than the other side of the bit that would be cutting the hole. In this case we are making a 9" circle.


#4 Drill the hole and insert a nail so as to be able to mark the drilled hole on the top side of the plate. I mention this for those who have more than a few holes drilled in the plate.


#5 Insert a nail in through the top side of the plate and put it's point into an indentation made in the center of a piece of 1/4" plywood.


The plywood needs be secured so as not to move. The strips which raise the plywood off the work surface need be secured too. Visual clarity can be seen in # 9.

#6 Start the cut and rotate counterclockwise. Be sure the nail is driven securely into the piece you are cutting. Try being aware of the twisting of the cords, the depth of cut and other things that may cause a problem. Be alert and aware of your surroundings.


#7 Continuing the cut, just a little bit deeper.


#8 Plunge deeper still.


#9 Here is a look at the finished circle, cut and still secured. Notice the center nail hole would be set into the center 3/4" plywood strip as well as the 1/4" circle. Notice the screws are set away from where the router bit path is. Here we have a 9" circle and a 10" hole.


#10 This is a photo of the 9" x 1/4" plywood circle fitting into a previously cut 9" hole.


So far so good?
Shaz
This post is redundant to the post in the thread "Making holes and circles" for a reason.

The idea of making holes and circles in and by themselves is an important tutorial worthy of mention, however for me it was necessary to bring them up in this thread, at this time.

Reason; I had to do the holes and circles in order to proceed with the making of the doors for the theater.
So far so good means that doing the holes and circles tutorial is not done in this thread as we need to reproduce multiple circles that will fit into the hole I have created.

"For what reason ? Pray tell! " ( Someone asked I hope ...)

To be concluded as I have garbage day and need rake up some leaves, go work out and then off to the shop. Wishing you all a great day.
Shaz

If I remember correctly, the circles are for your corner blocks in the cabinet doors. How do you do the beads?

Another tutorial with a trailing question keeps inquiring minds at the edge of their seat. Nice work Shaz, keep it up.

Ed Nelson said:

If I remember correctly, the circles are for your corner blocks in the cabinet doors. How do you do the beads?

Hi Ed ,
You are correct. We have 9 doors with the same size blocks in the corners. I figured it would be easier to start with circles which are 4 times larger than a 1/4 round and 1/4 the work and probably 1/4 the danger ... Ahhh, the bead, stay with me on this....S

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joe blankshain said:

Another tutorial with a trailing question keeps inquiring minds at the edge of their seat.

Nice work Shaz, keep it up.

Hi Joe ,
Inquiring minds are creative and brilliant, at least when stimulated ...and thanks for your encouragement! ...

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Okay, 9 doors = 36 corners ...I choose 9 circles rather than 36 individual pieces!!!!! Better do several extra circles for R and D..

Since this is an important part of the package I needed to figure out how to do the bead.

I knew it had to be with the circle using a 1/4" bead, at least for the doors. So to start, I figured about 11 circles would allow me to experiment and still get to the required finish line of 36 corners.
Reproducing 11 circles exactly the same size was relatively important to me at this juncture. Actually necessary.

Ed often quotes a chef he worked with saying "perfect will be just fine". It works here too.

Making exact duplicates from a pattern

First you need a perfect pattern. If it is not perfect then guess what?
Your results will mirror your less than perfect, funky imperfect pattern! At this point you have a choice. You can chose to do whatever is necessary to make your pattern exactly correct ( Bad News...actually you need at least 2 patterns as one needs be the master pattern from which you can make more useable patterns. Good news...you can make the second easily with the first pattern) or you can use the slightly imperfect pattern which probably sucks and get maybe 1000 or so reproductions which suck exactly the same. Sorry but true.
However,there is more good news for the pattern that sucks. When reproduced enough and put together in a design even ugly shapes can take on an attractive flair. This is also true!

#1 We have a perfect circle made with 1/4" plywood. Trace around it. Now trace another circle around it just a wee bit larger using the edge of the circle as your guide.


#2 The circle...


#3 Cut the circle on a saw making sure not to cut away the inside pencil line.


#4 More pics rough cutting the circle on the bandsaw.
[



#5 This is the finished roughcut circle.


I traced and cut 11 circles in this fashion. They were however traced onto 11" wide poplar. Earlier I had surfaced this poplar to about 3/4" strong along with all the poplar needed for the stiles and rails for these same doors.

#6 Here you see the router height adjustment being made to cut the 3/4" plywood while still allowing the roller bearing to contact the 1/4" pattern. (unplugged)

( A thicker pattern can be made from the perfect 1/4" piece. I start by making a thinner pattern as it is easier to smooth and correct than a thick one. Once the thin one is perfect the reproductions should be of equal quality.)

The router is shown in this photo upside down, unplugged. In this case I then turned the router over and held the router upright moving it around each circle rather than using a table with the router set into it. It can be done either way.


#7 Here is the pattern and the copy.


#8 This picture shows the circle fitting into the hole for which it was intended.




Okay, finally we are ready to push on with the making of the beaded 1/4 rounds.
My experimentation was at first mental. I have three 1/4" bead making options.
#1. a 2 wing cutter for the table saw.

#2. a molding head for the table saw that accepts 3 knives. For this I
can use a 3 bead cutter.

#3. a 1/4" bead cutter for the router.

Remember I do have straight runs of beaded molding and then there is the curved 1/4 rounds ! I guess the straight and the round should match up.
Shaz
Now What?
What do you think?

I'm not cabinetmaker enough to answer your last question Shaz, but I'll be tuned in for the answer.

Vaughn McMillan said:

I'm not cabinetmaker enough to answer your last question Shaz, but I'll be tuned in for the answer.

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Hi Vaughn ,
Thanks for staying with this.
Your new avatar is so funny. You are so creative.

How about a tutorial on moving avatars? That would be great fun!

I have wondered how they happen.

Okay the doors...
These are the 3 options I have for cutting the doors.


As mentioned before I have some long straight pieces I need to run and then there is the 1/4 corners. I decided to try the 2 wing cutter first. I know how well it works on the table saw for long runs and it has more width on the flat shoulder than the 3 bead cutter has.


My concern was in making the curved bead on the corners. I made two hole patterns into which my full sized circles fit. Here is a photo of one hole I cut to use over the 2 wing cutter on the table saw.


I aligned the curve of the hole pattern with the edge of the bead on the cutter head. Then it was necessary to set the cutting head for the depth of cut. I set it so that the full bead would be cut and remove about 1/16" from the circle face. Some concepts are difficult for me to verbalize clearly. Ask!



Then I slid my TS fence up to just kiss the side of the hole pattern and locked the fence. I ran one pass of the hole pattern through the table saw.
I cut the underside of the hole pattern with the cutter so as not to have it uncut when I turned on the motor with the pattern clamped down.
I aligned the hole, clamped it down and turned on the motor. So far so good.

I was thinking you could use one of these with your circle cutting jig.

but I don't think the bottom profile would match up. If you can use the same cutter on your moldiing head that cut the straight runs, as you showed, that would probably work the best.