A home theater

shaz,

kinda late to admit it now, but your hole jig on the TS was one solution i had thought of, but my mind couldn't decide whether it would work or not.

how will the cutter cut the profile on the section of the circle contacting the fence, without ruining the section approaching the fence? picture the cutter running the bead, then the cutter having to come down, it just seems in my head that it would over cut the bead so to say. i really don't know how to explain what i mean. sorry

carry on good sir

waiting for woodworking enlightenment

chris
 
I was thinking you could use one of these with your circle cutting jig.
web1383.jpg

but I don't think the bottom profile would match up. If you can use the same cutter on your moldiing head that cut the straight runs, as you showed, that would probably work the best.

Hi Ed :wave:, I thought you might be out there pondering some options. Your idea of using the circle jig is stimulating, thanks, just don't think it would serve me here. Thanks for the post. Reguarding the use of the same cutter head, those were my initial thoughts too. A note about my thinking is this...when something is not yet proven to work,even in the face of 99% certainty it will work, I am considering other options. :dunno:... S

shaz,

kinda late to admit it now, but your hole jig on the TS was one solution i had thought of, but my mind couldn't decide whether it would work or not.

Hi Chris :wave:,
You are thinking and questioning, next step is the experiment itself.:D...S

how will the cutter cut the profile on the section of the circle contacting the fence, without ruining the section approaching the fence? picture the cutter running the bead, then the cutter having to come down, it just seems in my head that it would over cut the bead so to say. i really don't know how to explain what i mean. sorry

Chris, you have a very good point and your thinking proves to be correct. It is difficult to put these concepts into words that make any sense. I have that problem. You have explained just fine:thumb:....S

carry on good sir

waiting for woodworking enlightenment

chris

As Ed mentioned, using the same cutter would be the ideal solution. Chris mentioned a problem he forsees with the 2 wing cutter, cutting a 1/4" bead on the outside of a 6 1/2" d circle.

I had my set up with the hole pattern set over the knife of the table saw just where I wanted it. The hole pattern is 1/2" thick and the circles are 3/4" thick. I turned on the table saw. All was fine.

I thought what happens now? I knew sooner or later I was going to put the circle in the hole:eek:...

What if it started spinning around like a 5 gallon bucket half full of grout, using a hugh paint stirring paddle with a two handed 1/2" drill that wouldn't turn off?:doh:Now that can tear you up with that wild bucket and the handle flailing around slamming your legs and water mixed grout flying out the top!:doh::doh::rofl: funny NOW! :rofl:

That's a story... but this circle drop was anticlimactic as I lowered the circle into the hole and due to the small amount being cut I had no problem or concern after having done one, well one small concern. I have dropped things on the top of spinning things in the past. Not good, so I try to be careful.

The problem with the profile was as Chris stated. The 2 wing cutter is about 6" in diameter.

When the bead cutting part comes up above the surface of the table saw high enough to cut the full bead, the actual distance of it's cutting from when it comes up through the table to when it goes down again is about ( I am guessing now) 1". This is the cutting at the top of the arc of the blade which occurs above the table surface.

Anyway, the profile although simulating a bead was not the best. The outter part of the bead was nice but the inside curved edge was out of round.
 
I think I'd lean toward making a scratch stock with the cutter profile! You could even rig the drill press to spin the circle and present the scratch stock to it.
 
I think I'd lean toward making a scratch stock with the cutter profile! You could even rig the drill press to spin the circle and present the scratch stock to it.

Hi Ed :wave:,
We are brainstorming here! :thumb:

That is an idea I had not considered, very stimulating. Scary thought though because it takes my mind to a very dangerous place!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek: A place that could distort my woodworking for the rest of my days. I have visions of long term and serious consequences going any farther than the thought!:eek::eek::eek::eek: Don't make me go there!!!!!!!:eek::eek:
Signed,
Mr. Trembling
 
shaz,

the issue you encountered was exactly what i was afraid would happen.

but shaz, here is the biggest and probably best question I could ask you.

ok, ya ready for it.....

how in the world did you make the sample piece that you showed the customer and posted a pic of in this thread. surely whatever method you used then will work again. of course unless it was one that took a very long time or was very dangerous.


thanks for allowing us to tag along on your problem solving journey

chris
 
Hi Ed :wave:,
We are brainstorming here! :thumb:

That is an idea I had not considered, very stimulating. Scary thought though because it takes my mind to a very dangerous place!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek: A place that could distort my woodworking for the rest of my days. I have visions of long term and serious consequences going any farther than the thought!:eek::eek::eek::eek: Don't make me go there!!!!!!!:eek::eek:
Signed,
Mr. Trembling

My fears have been relieved!!!!!! The idea of using the drill press with the wood mounted in it mutated into the thought that if I turned the drill press on it's side and locked the height adjustment and used the 2 wing cutter to cut the profile it might work and thus my drill press solved the problem........but only as a LATHE!!!!!:eek: I was afraid of falling into the abyss...However I was able to convince myself that I would have been using a horizontal drill press. Fortunate for me! My fear and trembling have subsided! :rolleyes::rofl:
Shaz :):rofl:

shaz,

the issue you encountered was exactly what i was afraid would happen.

but shaz, here is the biggest and probably best question I could ask you.

ok, ya ready for it.....

how in the world did you make the sample piece that you showed the customer and posted a pic of in this thread. surely whatever method you used then will work again. of course unless it was one that took a very long time or was very dangerous.
Hi Chris :wave:,
First, Good thinking.
Second, I made the sample and when it worked for me I finished making all of the corner blocks at the same time as I was on a roll. The making of these parts was so out of sequence with the actual need for them that I felt it best to reinact the thought process and the building as I got to it in sequence. Forgive me if I have been deceptive, no malice intended.
Shaz:)


thanks for allowing us to tag along on your problem solving journey

chris

Today I intend to photograph a reinactment of the making of the corners. It has been long and drawn out so far, much like the thinking and the quest for the solution. Hopefully you will enjoy the process, the explanation and the pictures. It is an attempt to encourage you all to try different things, in different ways and think outside the box.
Let me give you a clue to my solution, :rolleyes: (considering Ed's idea of chucking up the circle in the drill press)

This wounded drill press has no power left, lying like a dead soldier, on his side. Adding some semblance of life to the prostrate giant, we can only turn the shaft by hand, it has no power it is dead. What use is it now?

Seperate it from it's catch. There is nevertheless a glimmer of hope as we try to be part machine part man. We have the power but we must hold fast as the blades of life cut away at our posesssions.

We have control. Fortunately we are held fast in a mold that assures us some hope of success.............:D:D

If anybody guesses this it will blow me away because I am really outside the box with this clue thingy!!!!!!!!:rofl::rofl: Lock ME UP!!!!!!!!:rofl::rofl:
Shaz:)
 
Good evening :wave:,
(considering Ed's idea of chucking up the circle in the drill press)

The riddle.. The answer...

This wounded drill press has no power left, lying like a dead soldier, on his side. Adding some semblance of life to the prostrate giant, we can only turn the shaft by hand, it has no power it is dead. What use is it now?
(The piece I need to shape needs held vertically but not being turned by a machine)

Seperate it from it's catch. (Take off the circle from the unuseable drill press) There is nevertheless a glimmer of hope as we try to be part machine part man. (we need be machine like during production phases) We have the power but we must hold fast (inserting the circle into the hole in order for it to be cut) as the blades ( a router bit) of life cut away at our posesssions.(The circle we wish to shape)

We have control. Fortunately we are held fast in a mold that assures us some hope of success (using the circle pattern).............:D:D

Today I have photos that may help clear up some questions.

A photo of the router bit set for height and depth of cut.
mon jan. 7 012.jpg

Here is a pic of the hole, used as the retaining guide for all the circles, held fast as is the actual fence itself.
mon jan. 7 014.jpg

Here is a closer view of the bit in the hole, yet by now you have it all digested I'm sure.
mon jan. 7 013.jpg

And at last... something to go in the hole where something is guaranteed to happen. mon jan. 7 016.jpg
Shaz :)
 
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Moving on to the actual piece will be rather visual.
Here is the turning of the circle. # 2 is the back of the piece, set into the hole pattern.
mon jan. 7 017.jpg
mon jan. 7 018.jpg
mon jan. 7 019.jpg

The number #3 was the first tiny section I turned and took a photo of but it did not turn out, so we have a photo of #3's cut and #4's longer cut on the edge of the circle.
mon jan. 7 020.jpg

Chris mentioned earlier in this thread, his concern for the cut produced by the table saw 2 wing cutter. Here is the profile it cut.
mon jan. 7 001.jpg
mon jan. 7 003.jpg

Notice the marked difference on this piece cut by the router bit using the hole jig.
mon jan. 7 004.jpg
mon jan. 7 005.jpg

I have a much better chance getting the routered piece to member with a straight run than I would the piece from the table saw.
 

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Thanks Ed, It took awhile to get there.

This done,
rounds cut for corners.jpg

I decided to rabbet the underside of the circle edge
rabbet the circle underside.jpg

router bead with rabbet.jpg

then split the circles.
split the circle.jpg

circles split in half.jpg

The cutting into quarters then takes place.
split the half circle.jpg
 
thanks, shaz, i wondered if the router would work, i had envisioned the same problem as with the cutter on TS, but I can see those visions were incorrect.

it's amazing how much simpler things can be when you take the time to make proper and accurate jigs. also, the quality of the finished product is much higher.

thanks for sharing, now let's see how you join the rails, stiles and quarter rounds

chris
 
Glad to have you all following this thread, we never know if our time is well spent with all the typing and pics unless we get some input. Thanks,
Shaz :)

I'll tell you, these little pieces can become really time consuming with all the different steps needed to get to the finshed product, however when thoughtout and cautiously executed, the results to the over all picture take the project to a different level.

We have the circles beaded, rabbeted and quartered except we don't really know if the quartering is exact:eek: and it must be. At this point I see 3 more steps before we can call the corners finished.

#1 We must make sure the 2 straight sides of the 1/4 round are exactly the same, so we set a stop block on the miter box and cut one side then flip it over and cut the other edge.

#2 For joinery I decided on biscuits, thus that process must be completed
biscuit jig first position.jpg

buscuit second position.jpg

biscuit first cut.jpg

biscuit firstcut done.jpg

biscuit holes cut # 10.jpg

#3 We need to miter the corner bead on the existing 1/4 round corners to member with the straight run beading which we will apply later.
mitering of the corner round (1).jpg
mitering of the corner round (4).jpg


I decided to use 2 5/16" X 3/4" stock for the stiles and rails. This was all surfaced at the same time as the material for the circles.

The stiles and rails would be cut to within 1/8" of the hole door size, biscuited and glued up, the corners inset and glued and then the doors trimmed to fit when hung. The corners would be inset into the corners and then the straight run beaded molding would be applied to connect the miters whenever.
 
Here is the door build, or al least the first part.:)

Sand my work surface as I want it as smooth as possible.
sand the work surface.jpg

Prepare the tools and materials needed to do the job. Arrange them as you see fit.
prep, tools and materials (1).jpg
prep, tools and materials (2).jpg

Here are pictures of the stile and rail glue up during the learning curve.
learning curve glue up.jpg
learning curve glue up (1).jpg
learning curve glue up (2).jpg
These were filled with biscuits and aligned,


then the corners received their little mouthful of glue,
corner glue up.jpg
and a reward,
corner glue up (2).jpg

The corners when clamped like this pulled the doors into a better alignment.
corners glued up.jpg

And a blow up of the corner set and stapled through the biscuits.
corners glued up (2).jpg
 
I'm curious Shaz. Didn't you make the beads on the rail and stiles? Are you just checking the fit of the corners? Why didn't you make a set of rails and stiles with the beads for a trail run?
 
ed,

i think shaz opted to add the bead later, seeing as how if he ran the bead on the rails and stiles before hand, he would have to remove the bead from the sections where the corner pieces connect.

we'll wait and see what shaz has to say though.

looking good shaz!!

chris
 
Coming right along, Shaz...:thumb:

View attachment 16428

Assume the staples go on the back...:rolleyes:

How much of your work do you do in Poplar?

If these doors were for your upscale kitchen cabinet remodel, would you use the same method? If not, maybe later in another thread, show us your alternative for a bunch of cabinet doors....?

Back to :lurk: and
drooling-5.gif



:rofl:
 
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I'm curious Shaz. Didn't you make the beads on the rail and stiles? Are you just checking the fit of the corners? Why didn't you make a set of rails and stiles with the beads for a trail run?

ed,
:wave:
i think shaz opted to add the bead later, seeing as how if he ran the bead on the rails and stiles before hand, he would have to remove the bead from the sections where the corner pieces connect.

we'll wait and see what shaz has to say though.

looking good shaz!!

chris

Hi Ed :wave:, Chris has answered correctly, the bead would have had to be removed and then at the point where the corner joined with the stile and with the rail, a miter would have had to be made. This can be done but I opted to do it my way for speed, accuracy and safety. I laid this out so as to have 9 doors with the stiles the same length= 18 pieces, also 6 doors with the rails exactly the same,= 12 pieces. When I glued them all up and set corners in place I virtually cut 18 mitred pieces of trim exactly the same length , then set up and cut 12 pieces to fit the rail length minus the space for the corners (which were all exactly the same length, even with the miter on both ends). Not saying another way would be better or worse, I just vote for this one, this time.:)
Hi Chris :wave:, Good having you and Ed work through this with me.:thumb:

So far so good,
Shaz:)

sat. dec. 31 041.jpg
 
Coming right along, Shaz...:thumb:

Thanks Greg:wave:...S

View attachment 16428

Assume the staples go on the back...:rolleyes:

Asssume nothing... the doors get painted, thus the staples were every where and anywhere the would be of help,:D front and back. The thin gauge 5/8" staple type...shot with the grain. ...S

How much of your work do you do in Poplar?

I use it a lot for painting stock and for staining as it does real well with a stain I use with lacquer, called "Blonde It"....S

If these doors were for your upscale kitchen cabinet remodel, would you use the same method?
Probably not as there are too many holes from all the staples:huh:......:rofl: I did some really hot doors for a kitchen back in the late 80's. Each door had 7 pieces as I recall, all splined and molded both sides, some of the prettiest doors I have seen, no fasteners, mahogany from belize. I will look for a photo, then there were the doors we made for this cigar bar, they were really cool too, spanish cedar. Show you some time!:)...S (figured I better do it now as time is getting away.:D)

humidors.jpg

scan0002.jpg

scan0004.jpg

scan0021.jpg

If not, maybe later in another thread, show us your alternative for a bunch of cabinet doors....?

Back to :lurk: and
drooling-5.gif



:rofl:
Thanks for checkin up on me!
Shaz :)
Good night.
 
Tip time...

"Sand my work surface as I want it as smooth as possible."
Afterwards, do you ever use waxed paper on your table where you do glue ups, to keep the glue from sticking?

"The thin gauge 5/8" staple type...shot with the grain. ...S"
I don't have a stapler yet, but this will get noted in the manual of the one I get...and maybe on my wall too! :rofl:

View attachment 16434

"The thin gauge 5/8" staple type"
5/8":huh:? Do the ends come out the other side, then you nip them off with the clippers in your pic?

That's a cool looking glue bottle top... Special for bisquettes:)p)? Where did you get it?
 
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Wow,

View attachment 16437

Now those are some doors...Cigar Bar? Cabinets to hold the member's stoggies and cognac? (They have "key bottles" in Japan. You buy your favorite spirit and the club puts a tag with your name on it on the bottle and then puts the bottle in a locked, windowed box, for your next visit)

I did some really hot doors for a kitchen back in the late 80's.
Looking forward to seeing those to when you find them...

Ahhhh... A Shazzzzzam from the past!

View attachment 16436

I see you've matured in your selection of shirts...

View attachment 16438

(Eat your heart out, Norm....:rofl:)
 
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