Hey Guess What...............??

Well Alan, we shall agree to disagree.

If you choose to do more than just point out the flaws in our ways, and actually do some work here at Family Woodworking, the elections are in a month, you could stand for them, and effect change were you think it is needed.

How often do you get a chance to do that on most any online forum?

I've known you for some time on various online forums, and I've seen you kicked off more than a few, you usually run afoul of the rules and get banned or you leave. You will find no such easy out here, we are willing to discuss (within the CoC) the way Family Woodworking works, and we offer to every member the opportunity to roll up their sleeves and work on making Family Woodworking work better, so again, if you can, please stand for the election, and if you get elected, you can have a go at running this place.

Have a great day, I know I am!

Alan DuBoff said:

Not to cause problems, but I once had a post pulled as I was told that it bordered on religious content, as it related to Jesus.

Isn't a post about Christmas a religious topic that shouldn't be discussed per the CoC?

I mean, I'm not Christian, so in some ways it is offensive to me, so I'm playing devil's advocate.

This is only to point out that depending on how one interprets a post, it is possible to make even a simple post as this become a religious topic.

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Christmas is a public holiday in many countries which many non-Christians (such as me, my wife, most of our close relatives, and many of our friends) celebrate. There are many things about the holiday which pre-date Christianity and it is easy to celebrate those aspects and treat Christmas as a secular gathering of friends and family at the time of the Winter Solstice.

Alan DuBoff said:

...Too bad I can't tell you what I really think, in PUBLIC, like a true open forum would work...

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If you're not in agreement with the degree of openness this forum has, you're always welcome to start your own. In a sense, that's what we did here. Or as Stu suggested, run for a Moderator position in the upcoming elections and help steer this place.

Frank Pellow said:

Christmas is a public holiday in many countries which many non-Christians (such as me, my wife, most of our close relatives, and many of our friends) celebrate. There are many things about the holiday which pre-date Christianity and it is easy to celebrate those aspects and treat Christmas as a secular gathering of friends and family at the time of the Winter Solstice.

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Hear, hear. It means many things to many people of many beliefs.

Pre-Christian origins
A winter festival was traditionally the most popular festival of the year in many cultures. Reasons included less agricultural work needing to be done during the winter, as well as people expecting longer days and shorter nights after the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere.[10] In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations.[11][10] Certain prominent gods and goddesses of other religions in the region had their birthdays celebrated on December 25, including Ishtar, Sol Invictus and Mithras. Various traditions are considered to have been syncretised from winter festivals including the following:

Saturnalia
In Roman times, the best-known winter festival was Saturnalia, which was popular throughout Italy. Saturnalia was a time of general relaxation, feasting, merry-making, and a cessation of formal rules. It included the making and giving of small presents (Saturnalia et Sigillaricia), including small dolls for children and candles for adults.[12] During Saturnalia, business was postponed and even slaves feasted. There was drinking, gambling, and singing, and even public nudity. It was the "best of days," according to the poet Catullus.[13] Saturnalia honored the god Saturn and began on December 17. The festival gradually lengthened until the late Republican period, when it was seven days (December 17–23). In imperial times, Saturnalia was shortened to five days.[14]

Natalis Solis Invicti
The Romans held a festival on December 25 called Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "the birthday of the undefeated sun." The use of the title Sol Invictus allowed several solar deities to be worshipped collectively, including Elah-Gabal, a Syrian sun god; Sol, the god of Emperor Aurelian (AD 270–274); and Mithras, a soldiers' god of Persian origin.[15] Emperor Elagabalus (218–222) introduced the festival, and it reached the height of its popularity under Aurelian, who promoted it as an empire-wide holiday.[16] December 25 was also considered to be the date of the winter solstice, which the Romans called bruma.[12] It was therefore the day the Sun proved itself to be "unconquered" despite the shortening of daylight hours. (When Julius Caesar introduced the Julian Calendar in 45 BC, December 25 was approximately the date of the solstice. In modern times, the solstice falls on December 21 or 22.) The Sol Invictus ffestival has a "strong claim on the responsibility" for the date of Christmas, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia.[2] Several early Christian writers connected the rebirth of the sun to the birth of Jesus[17] "O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born . . . Christ should be born", Cyprian wrote.[2]


Yule
Pagan Scandinavia celebrated a winter festival called Yule, held in the late December to early January period. Yule logs were lit to honor Thor, the god of thunder, with the belief that each spark from the fire represented a new pig or calf that would be born during the coming year. Feasting would continue until the log burned out, which could take as many as twelve days.[10] In pagan Germania (not to be confused with Germany), the equivalent holiday was the mid-winter night which was followed by 12 "wild nights", filled with eating, drinking and partying.[18] As Northern Europe was the last part to Christianize, its pagan celebrations had a major influence on Christmas. Scandinavians still call Christmas Jul. In English, the Germanic word Yule is synonymous with Christmas,[19] a usage first recorded in 900.

Christian origins
It is unknown exactly when or why December 25 became associated with Christ's birth. The New Testament does not give a specific date.[20] Sextus Julius Africanus popularized the idea that Christ was born on December 25 in his Chronographiai, a reference book for Christians written in AD 221.[17] This date is nine months after the traditional date of the Incarnation (March 25), now celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation. March 25 was considered to be the date of the vernal equinox and early Christians believed this was also the date Christ was crucified. The Christian idea that Christ was conceived on the same date that he died on the cross is consistent with a Jewish belief that a prophet lived an integral number of years.[21]
The celebration of Christmas as a feast did not arise for some time after Chronographai was published. Tertullian does not mention it as a major feast day in the Church of Roman Africa. In 245, the theologian Origen denounced the idea of celebrating Christ's birthday "as if he were a king pharaoh". He contended that only sinners, not saints, celebrated their birthdays.[22]

The earliest reference to the celebration of the nativity on December 25 is found in the Chronography of 354, an illuminated manuscript compiled in Rome in 354.[2][23] In the East, early Christians celebrated the birth of Christ as part of Epiphany (January 6), although this festival focused on the baptism of Jesus.[24]

Christmas was promoted in the Christian East as part of the revival of Catholicism following the death of the pro-Arian Emperor Valens at the Battle of Adrianople in 378. The feast was introduced to Constantinople in 379, and to Antioch in about 380. The feast disappeared after Gregory of Nazianzus resigned as bishop in 381, although it was reintroduced by John Chrysostom in about 400.[2]

The Twelve Days of Christmas are the twelve days from the day after Christmas Day, December 26, which is St. Stephen's Day, to the Feast of Epiphany on January 6 that encompass the major feasts surrounding the birth of Christ. In the Latin Rite, one week after Christmas Day, January 1, has traditionally been the celebration the Feast of the Naming and Circumcision of Christ, but since Vatican II, this feast has been celebrated as the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God.

In some traditions the 12 days of Christmas start on Christmas Day (25 December) and the 12th day is therefore 5 January.

Ok Alan and Vaughn off to your rooms. No dinner for the two of you.

Back to the original question.......


No I haven't started on anything yet, I am usually a last minute shopper unless the wife gives me a good idea ahead of time. I like to give and receive gift cards no matter how lame that may sound, because I usually get a gift card from my favorite woodworking store or bookstore. Last year I got a gift certificate to Cabelas from my brother in law which I used to purchase a new pair of work boots.

My wife usually gets a gift card from the local jeweler or victorias secret so she is happy, kids get them from Gander Mountain or Cabelas.....now before anyone thinks all I do is the gift card thing.....no, I do actually buy or make gifts for family, the gift cards are stocking stuffers.

I am going to need to build a toy box to match the crib I built for my grandsons Christmas gift this year.....I got a while to think this all over.