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Raindrops are falling on my head

Being a X farmer

I would have to agree with Travis on this subjeck. Having owned many farms and farming some 2500 acres of both owned and rented ground. You could not have made a dime in the late 80's and early 90's without the use of herbsides. You can not raise both weeds and corn or soybeans which is a grain farmers cash crops.

Although I always had about 100 head of cattle that was on feed, I never fed them anything other than the crops raised on the farm. Did I treat them if they were ill and coughing, yes I did with antibotics, but nothing else. We ate one of them every year and never had a ill effect from it.

Bottom line is that you can not make a proffit raising both weeds and a crop.

By the way here in the "belt" land rents for $125 to $150 per acre.

Very intersting topic. As I have always owned a few trucks also and ran them from the west coast to the east coast hauling produce. So I am very aware of the Mexican workers keeping our food cost down.

Thanks for letting me post this,
Chuck
 
MJ Isles said:
LOL, my oldest Beagle Molly did the same thing with the blueberries. We'd see some berries starting to ripen, then they'd disappear. Thought a bird was picking them off 'til we caught Molly red-pawed one day. The berries were at snout level, just the perfect height. :eek:

--MJ
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I had a similar experience when I was just a kid..perhaps 5 years old or so. We kept having sheep come up among the missing. Then one day we saw our Dalmation heading across the field with a little lamb in its mouth. My Grandfather yelled for my Grandmother to get the gun...the dog never made it to the other side of the field. Kind of traumatic as a kid, but then again you quickly learn about life and death too. Not a bad thing I guess.
 
Well Chuck, just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean other people couldn't.

Kind of like trucks, some guys can make a good living at it and others will take a cheap load just because it's headed home. I never understood that.
 
Can't say as I blame your Grandpa, Travis. Your right it is traumatic for a kid. Once a dog starts going after livestock it's hard to make them quit.

I don't think I'm gonna shoot the dog for raiding the garden though. Theres plenty to go around oh though they are a little hard on the strawberries. I may have to give them a stern talking to :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
MJ, Great poem! Thanks

Dave, I love the trees too, my problem is I need lots of diversity. I could never be just a logger, forester, wood worker, truck driver, saw mill operator, gardener or computer geek. I have to be all of them.

Keeps me from getting bored
Come to think of it, I need another hobby!!! :rofl: :rofl:
 
Robert Mickley said:
Travis, you don't have to join MOFGA to get certified
Theres always OCIA which is what my brother belongs to. It's not cheap either but its not based on income.

Remember, it's the old adage, you have to spend money to make money ;)
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We got talking about organic farming today at work, and I had to add some of the stuff you taught me here. If your remember, I work with a "homesteader",that does everything right, (according to a book anyway) and knows everything....and I mean everything. Anyway he was flabbergasted this weekend when he bought organic milk from his neighbor and found out the guy uses fly ash on his property, and fertilizes with laying hen manure.

Now keep in mind, laying hens have just about every drug you could possibly inject into them, and the ammonia they have in their poo is the same, if not more potent then annihydrous ammonia or urea. Obviously if you fertilize with this,and your cows eat the grass, and you milk the cows...well. As for the fly ash, we get that free from paper companies who use it in their scrubbers to take pollutants out of the air. Technically its organic, but...

That was when I explained to him that the USDA organics and MOFGA (Maine Oraganic Farmer and Garden Organization) and other organizations have different standards. (As I learned here) He got so mad because I knew something he didn't, he started knocking my family's farm. Now granted we do have a higher bacteria count then what Oakhurst allows, and its not free-stall, but its still well within USDA regulations. (I think nothing about drinking it) And his milk, being organic as it claims, is probably better then the average store bought milk, but only marginally. I doubt its worth what he's paying for it.

Its too bad there is not a set of standards that everyone follows. I heard through the grape vine that the USDA Organic Standard is 900 pages thick?

I have 12 acres that is growing high bred hackmatack right now, and because its been there since 1994 without herbicides, I believe at some point that ground could be certified organic. There is no way my other ground could be though, at least not for a few years. We just spread 9 grand worth of Urea on it last year, and the corn ground has herbicides in the high-bred seed.

As for spending money to make money, that adage has always been a stumbling block. :) That was why I was hoping that cell phone tower or giant wind mill farm would come here.:thumb:
 
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Robert Mickley said:
Can't say as I blame your Grandpa, Travis. Your right it is traumatic for a kid. Once a dog starts going after livestock it's hard to make them quit.

I don't think I'm gonna shoot the dog for raiding the garden though. Theres plenty to go around oh though they are a little hard on the strawberries. I may have to give them a stern talking to :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Travis's dog story reminded me of western PA, how once dogs start "running deer," they're usually shot. Same thing.

My dogs are hard on the strawberries too-- between them rolling around when they wrestle and stepping on the berries, there's not many left for me. I ended up moving most of the plants to the front yard last year to escape the Beagles.

Fortunately, I don't have to worry about them going after the hot peppers. ;)

--MJ
 
Dave Kauffman said:
Well... I don’t actually talk to my trees directly, maybe in spirit, but I'm with you 100% here. I think of the trees I've planted and nurtured over the years in some ways like they are my children. I know... the analogy breaks down when you have to cut them down and make boards from them :eek:, but you get my point. (actually, just as your kids live on to spread your genes, the boards, when made by yourself into something useful and lasting, also do that via your skills). At any rate, as much as I used to love working my garden as a kid on Grandma's farm, trees are in my blood and if given the choice, would rather spend time taking care of a 30 acre woodlot than a garden. Just a personal preference. So much so that I earned a forestry degree, and worked as a forester and then a logger years ago. I just love wood, its unique properties, the infinite variety of types of wood and what each one is good for. Sloan said in one of his books that before modern glues, a woodworker constructing a rocking chair might use 3 or 4 different kinds of wood depending on what part of the rocker he was building. MJ says "But there's nothing like the joy and pleasure of watching your own plants grow and produce". True... (yup I eat snap peas right off the vine from my Dad's garden too...) but there is also nothing like going from standing tree you've cared for over the years and then eventually milled into boards and made into an heirloom for a daughter. OK, ya gotta wait a little longer for the return with trees than the garden...:D ... but I'm old enough now to be actually milling lumber from trees I've taken care of and watched grow in the last 30+ years. I guess in reality this is an apples and oranges thing... but it's an interesting comparison anyway.
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Well you are smarter than I am. Near me there is Unity College, one of the better forestry colleges in the country from what I understand. Anyway when the college was started,the forefathers decided that if anyone from Mount View High School (the local school) wanted to go to their college,they could, free of tuition.

In high school though,we always made fun of the hippies and granolas that went there, so I was too cool to stoop to that level. In hind site, it was STUPID. I would love to be a forester.Its a bit hard to do here as far as a full-time job goes, but adding in logging, sawmilling and stuff, several foresters do manage to eek out a living.

Anyway instead I make thick metal thin and kick myself in the hiney for being so short sighted when I was 18. I don't have any formal training, but I do enjoy watching trees grow. One great feeling is knowing the history of the land. Most of the wood that went into my house came from the same acres of wood that were put into my fathers house 30 years before. I could still see the rotted hemlock stumps as I cut my hemlock trees. Literally, what he left ended up in his sons house. Now how cool is that?

If you read my project in progress regarding my stainless steel dovetail saw, you can see the Crab Apple handle. My house sits in a field that is now a hackmatack plantation. Growing up it was a hay field, and when I was real little it was a potatoe field. Back in the 1940's my Grandfather cleared what used to be a Crab Apple Orchard. There are still a lot of apple trees from that apple orchard even today. The handle of that dovetail saw came from such a tree. That handle has been growing for 150 years and started out when the Civil War was still raging. Despite that, this lowly chunk of wood has never even left this town. That's a lot of history,and again, down right cool I think.

Yep,there is nothing like trees, wood and the cycle of life. Sure am glad I am a woodworker to appreciate it all. (And to a lesser extent, a farmer even if I am not an organic farmer Mickey ;);););) )

Shotened_Saw-small.JPG
 
Robert Mickley said:
Can't say as I blame your Grandpa, Travis. Your right it is traumatic for a kid. Once a dog starts going after livestock it's hard to make them quit.

I don't think I'm gonna shoot the dog for raiding the garden though. Theres plenty to go around oh though they are a little hard on the strawberries. I may have to give them a stern talking to :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I got a reputation quite awhile ago for being able to do what a Vet should be doing. People would drop off a dog or a cat, tell a sad story, then I would do the deed and hand put it in a box for them and give it back. I refused to do the digging though.

One year I smoked well over 200 pets. 245 I think. That was when I decided enough was enough. I just started telling people I had retired from that sort of thing. I just don't want to do that any more. The older I get, the harder it gets to even put down my own animals. I guess I'm getting soft huh?:dunno:
 
Travis Johnson said:
Well you are smarter than I am.
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I doubt that Travis... a degree does not make one smarter. In fact I could argue the opposite. Varied life experiences and the fortitude to tackle those that aren't always easy does though. I'd much rather sit in front of a campfire with an old farmer than and old professor... any day of the week. ;)
 
MJ Isles said:
Hmm... what if the old professor was also a woodworker? You never know about those professors. They're a sneaky bunch. ;)

--Dr. MJ
(nah, just pullin' your leg... but there are a couple on this forum!) :)
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:) Don't get me wrong... the world needs professors and farmers both. I guess I am showing my bias here, although admittedly said with tongue firmly in cheek:D Actually MJ I do happen to know somebody who is a prof and who is indeed also a woodworker. Not only does he use my woodshop from time to time (mine has bigger toys than his), but I have also sat around a campfire with him solving the worlds problems into the wee hours.
 
Wow, at least you are solving the worlds problems. All I seem to do is make problems for myself:rofl::rofl::rofl:

In actuality I know what you mean though. My wife has two degrees, one in Marine Biology and another in Environmental Science, and then some sort of degree so she can teach kids. Anyway one day I asked her to take a picture of me as I cut this big Spruce tree. She came out in the woods and honest to goodness said this "Why are you cutting the big trees? You should be cutting the little trees..." Obviously she needs a bit more schooling. We spar all the time anyway because we are opposites on just about everything.

Overall though, you got to remember that my mentors were all older people. My Grandfather, my Dad, my Uncle...these were the people I learned how to cut wood with, and they in turn learned it from there fathers and great grandfather. All these people were old farmers too boot.

Their influence was so not much in "well I cut this tree because..." kind of thing, but more of the "do you see this car coming at us, they smoke cigarettes," and sure enough they would pass by and the person would be smoking. "You see if he did not smoke, he could afford another 100 dollar a month car payment and have something." The same lessons were taught about drinking and drugs (never even tried the stuff). Those are the lessons you learn later on in life,and I think growing up around older people really helped.

I am quite proud of what I have accomplished in 33 years,and I make no bones about it, but it certainly was not easy. While everyone else was partying at 20 years old, I was building a house. I was working full time and cutting wood to pay for it and building the place...a lot of 18 hour days in the early years. All that I attribute to some older farmers (family granted) that helped me out and kept me straight.

Now the goal is to help Alyson do the same thing. If I can do that, then I can truly say I did alright.
 
Travis Johnson said:
...a lot of 18 hour days in the early years. All that I attribute to some older farmers (family granted) that helped me out and kept me straight.

Now the goal is to help Alyson do the same thing. If I can do that, then I can truly say I did alright.
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Amazing what this thread has morphed into... but that's OK, it IS off-the-topic. Had to add my 2 cents as far as grandfather mentors go... I spent my summers from age 8 on working on my Grandfathers farm. First thing I ever drove other than my bicycle was a 1946 John Deere A pulling an ancient metal wheeled manure spreader. He did instill in me the work ethic that has stayed with me since. He used to tell me that the harder you worked, the better your food would taste at dinner. He was right of course :).

As for growing Alyson up to appreciate and understand that work ethic, having tried and only partially suceeded with my three girls (ages 23, 21 and 16) all I can tell you is, that will be a challenge in todays world. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.
 
Travis Johnson said:
We got talking about organic farming today at work, and I had to add some of the stuff you taught me here. If your remember, I work with a "homesteader",that does everything right, (according to a book anyway) and knows everything....and I mean everything. Anyway he was flabbergasted this weekend when he bought organic milk from his neighbor and found out the guy uses fly ash on his property, and fertilizes with laying hen manure.
Click to expand...

See its the guys like that selling organic and not following good standards that get me going. Oh though if he is following USDA standards he may be within the rules.

Now keep in mind, laying hens have just about every drug you could possibly inject into them, and the ammonia they have in their poo is the same, if not more potent then annihydrous ammonia or urea. Obviously if you fertilize with this,and your cows eat the grass, and you milk the cows...well. As for the fly ash, we get that free from paper companies who use it in their scrubbers to take pollutants out of the air. Technically its organic, but...
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Depends on the hens brother ;) laying hens is one of the things my brother keeps. As for the manure, we can't use raw manure. It has to be composted for a year. Besides raw manure is hard on the ground,

That was when I explained to him that the USDA organics and MOFGA (Maine Oraganic Farmer and Garden Organization) and other organizations have different standards. (As I learned here) He got so mad because I knew something he didn't, he started knocking my family's farm. Now granted we do have a higher bacteria count then what Oakhurst allows, and its not free-stall, but its still well within USDA regulations. (I think nothing about drinking it) And his milk, being organic as it claims, is probably better then the average store bought milk, but only marginally. I doubt its worth what he's paying for it.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: I'm glad I got to help you wind him up. I let you in on something, I would drink your milk long before I would buy it from the store. ;). If we don't have raw milk in the house, I don't drink milk. In fact I'm drinking the last glass right now. Which means I won't have milk again till Saturday, When my nephew brings it over. Just out of curiosity what is he paying for that milk? Brother has 2 poor lonely cows, jersey Holstein crosses. he is getting $4 a gallon.
Its too bad there is not a set of standards that everyone follows. I heard through the grape vine that the USDA Organic Standard is 900 pages thick?
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I don't know about 900 pages, but I have heard it is thick.
mainly because of all the exceptions. An example would be. If your raising chickens for slaughter. Your feed price for organic feed gets to to high of a ratio to gross sales, you can feed a percentage of conventional feed. The higher your org feed cost gets the more conventional feed you can use. Of course since its the guberment theres a complicated formula you have to figure out. Now apply that to everything you do on the farm:rolleyes:

I have 12 acres that is growing high bred hackmatack right now, and because its been there since 1994 without herbicides, I believe at some point that ground could be certified organic. There is no way my other ground could be though, at least not for a few years. We just spread 9 grand worth of Urea on it last year, and the corn ground has herbicides in the high-bred seed.
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3 years, first two you sell on the conventional market, 3rd year you sell it organic. It's hard since it takes that three years to get the ground right . which in turn means lower production the first few years. Once you learn how to take care of the ground it gets easier. My brother sends out about 30 or so soil samples a year for testing. Testing is not only for what nutrients the ground needs, but organic matter content, and whether you have good bugs or bad bugs and how many. Once you get it right production will come back up. It kill a lot of guys because they can't get their head wrapped around the art of taking care of the ground, Take care of the ground, it will take care of the plants.

Conventional farmers take care of the crops. When you have been doing things a certain way for generations, like your family it is extremely hard to change your ways. When my nephew got on the organic kick it drove my brother nuts. Now it's second nature to him
 
MJ Isles said:
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about them going after the hot peppers. ;)

--MJ
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My chocolate female will eat hot peppers, in fact she will eat anything edible if I hand it to her. They go nuts over the goofiest things, roasted soybeans is one. Popcorn, Flint the black lab just loves popcorn!! I have even caught them eating horse feed when it gets some gets spilled down in cousins barn. It's just corn oats molasses and some trace minerals.

Heres the bums, Left to right is Red Flint and Kenda
Red lives with a friend of ours now, Oh though he came home with me Sat morning and didn't go back till this morning. He's loyal to who is feeding him :rofl:

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MJ Isles said:
Robert Mickley said:
Red lives with a friend of ours now, Oh though he came home with me Sat morning and didn't go back till this morning. He's loyal to who is feeding him :rofl:
QUOTE]

LOL, sounds like a Beagle! ;) They love me until someone else shows up with treats. I like the name "Popcorn."

Labs are wonderful dogs, especially black Labs.

--MJ :)
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I REALLY Need to learn to watch my punctuation.
What it was supposed to mean was the black lab loves popcorn :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I don't know about tail wagging, but I bet if walked out in the living room both Kenda and Flint are sleeping on the couch.

Red was home for a visit this weekend, I know he doesn't mind sleeping on the couch.

At least the other two get off when you walk in the living room
 

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