Electrolysis or Elbow Grease?

Vaughn McMillan

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You guys are gonna get sick of me and my questions...:p

The Bailey No. 3 that I'm cleaning up was lightly rusted. Tonight I got the bulk of it off with steel wool, Simple Green, hot water and WD-40. I also hit the machined surfaces with a wire brush on the drill press. I still have a few isolated posts of rust in nooks and crannies that I can't get into with the things I've tried so far. (I haven't' resorted to the mini wire brush in the Dremel yet.)

I'm considering setting up a small electrolysis tank to get the remaining rust, but (as usual) I had a few questions. These minor rust spots are not going to affect the operation of the plane. Should I even worry about them? If I do go with electrolysis, will that remove the japanning (which is in pretty good shape)? Instead of electrolysis, are there any other methods you'd recommend? I'm assuming Naval Jelly is out, since it will discolor the metal. Is that a correct assumption?

Thanks for any advice you can offer. :thumb:
 
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...Over on another wood forum there are a bunch of fellows that have been talking recently about Evapo-Rust for rust removal. They say it works wonders.

It does! I bought a couple quarts of it from Lee Valley a few weeks ago, and tried it for the first time last week on a very rustu #5. I just put the plane in a shallow plastic tray, poured about an inch of the solution in it abd left it overnight. Next morning, there was a nice clean line along the sides of the plane where all the rust had been removed. I laid the plane on each side in the solution for a few hours and it was done. Easiest de-rusting I've ever done!

Next time - especially for smaller planes - I'm going to put the plane in a plastic bag so I can form fit the bag to the plane and cover the whole thing with solution at once.
 
Electrolysis is the most (or one of) effective means of getting rust in hidden places. On small parts I usually just wire brush it because I can do it just a few minutes. It would take me longer to get a tank up and running.

If it were mine, I would rather have the japaning. If I wasn't going to recoat it, I would just use the wire brush on the grinder and go to town. It does an amazing job.
 
Know a biker ?

Drop it off at your local biker shop and have 'em bead blast it. 10 bucks and its a done thing and also a bit of a break for both of you.
 
As it turned out, with 0000 steel wool, some Simple Green, WD-40, and a wire brush on the drill press, I got it all pretty clean in about an hour or so. There's still a little surface rust in the nooks and crannies, but all the important surfaces cleaned up nicely. The plane lived most of its life in arid New Mexico, so any rust was superficial. I still need to lap the sole and hone the new Hock A2 blade that arrived today. Still waiting on the new chipbreaker, though.

I'll post pics when I get it done. :)
 
Vaughn asked, "I'm assuming Naval Jelly is out, since it will discolor the metal. Is that a correct assumption?
"
Yes, Naval Jelly is basically phosphoric acid. It will give the steel a 'blueing' effect. The actual color will depend on the type of steel. You might get more of a purple or mottled effect. Actually, I have not found it particularly effective at rust removal on guns and kept around for quicky blueing touch-up on guns I was planning to sell.
 
I sure do like the results i get with electrolysis. I just fired up the tank again this weekend and was really amazed at the dramatic results i got with thickly scaled rust on some cast iron parts.
That said, i tend to save up a few "projects" before hooking it up - makes it more worth the while of mixing up a bucket of solution.
One thing i like about it is that it arrests the rusting process. Acidic products do the same thing (chemical rust removers). Abbrasion does not. If you're wire wheeling rust off and miss some, the eletrical action of the rusting process. It may slow down depending on humidity and storage conditions, but it will continue even if it's painted over.
Paul Hubbman
 
Electrolysis is "line of site", that is the electrons zipping through the soup take the shortest distance between two points. Why a lot of area is needed for the anode. That being said, hidden nooks and crannies that are not in direct line to the anode will not get current flow from them to the anode.
 
One other method is Citric Acid. Purchase this in powder form from the cookery section of a supermarket. Mix with luke warm water and soak for 24 hours. It can be re-used, and is environmentally friendly. It will loosen and dissolve rust, which can be wiped off with fine steel wool.

This is the result after cleaning up a very rusty Stanley #46:

Stanley46-2.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Derek, some questions please:

How much citric acid/unit volume water?
Do you remove the wood from the plane handle before soaking?
Do you have to do anything after the soak to completely dry out cast iron?

Thanks, and regards to Perth,
Ken
 
Hi Ken

I used about 150 gms of citric acid powder in a 2/3 filled 10 lt bucket of warm water.

The water is clear at first, then starts to emit small brown (!) bubbles. Eventually the water is brown.

How long to leave the tools in this mix? That is up to the degree of rust. Anything from 24 hours to a 3 or 4 days. Keep checking the progress.

You could stick a bare hand into this stuff quite safely (of course, wear gloves). It is not toxic.

Afterwards wash off in clear water, dry with a rag, and scrub with either fine steel wood (#000 or #0000) or a plastic scourer pad. Finally wipe with a little oil to add rust protection (it will otherwise return very quickly in the form of a fine rash). Once all moisture has been excluded this way, I wax the surface. This provided a good barrier for the future.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
...I used about 150 gms of citric acid powder in a 2/3 filled 10 lt bucket of warm water...
Uh-oh. I don't think they sell metric citric acid around here. We can get metric water (it's imported, of course), but the citric acid may be a stumbling block. :D

Thanks for the info Derek. I had the same questions Ken did. I think I'll try it for the minor "nooks and crannies" rust that's left.
 
Electrolysis is "line of site", that is the electrons zipping through the soup take the shortest distance between two points. Why a lot of area is needed for the anode. That being said, hidden nooks and crannies that are not in direct line to the anode will not get current flow from them to the anode.

Could you please provide a reference for this? My electrochemistry is a bit weak, but I've never heard of this and my analytical chemistry instructor in college was an electrochemist by research interest.
 
The big wrench I did as an experiment gave mixed results. Most of the wrench cleaned up nicely. But, one section on the adjustable part didn't clean at all. I reattached the copper wire directly to it and tried again. Nothing. Nadda results. Puzzling. Picture later.
 
Ken:

I had the chance to play with Griz's setup when he helped me restore those hand planes earlier.

My question was about whether or not electrolysis is a line of sight phenomenon. I didn't think it was. I did a little research to convince myself that it isn't and found this interesting electrochemistry site: http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/

In the electrolysis section there is a picture showing that most ion (charge) movement in solution is due to diffusion, essentially a random motion. So it shouldn't matter where the rust is relative to the other electrode - if the rust is in solution it should eventually get electrolytically removed.

I've been learning more chemistry from my hobbies lately than from my career as an analytical chemist - it's fun.
 
The big wrench I did as an experiment gave mixed results. Most of the wrench cleaned up nicely. But, one section on the adjustable part didn't clean at all. I reattached the copper wire directly to it and tried again. Nothing. Nadda results. Puzzling. Picture later.

That is Strange, isn't it? I would like to see a picture of it, 'cause it's got my curiosity stirred up.:huh: Could it have been a different kind of metal, or a hardened metal or have some kind of coating on it or something that would make it react differently from the rest of the piece?:huh::dunno:
 
I have to say I have tried all the methods thru the years, including the citric acid. They all work fairly well. They all have their drawbacks. Some won't work on heavily rusted items, some will, but are a PITA to set up and get ready to use.

I started using the Evaporust after Katrina to clean up TS, BS etc tops. The stuff is amazing. Easy to use. You can pour it right back in the jug and reuse it. It can be poured right down the sink. It's environmentally friendly.

It's never bothered the japaning or paint on anything I've tried it on. It will get in every nook and cranny.

Now having said all that, it leaves a "fresh" cast iron look to the metal. I find it to be just fine. Has a good look and contrast when machined, ie: honing the sole on a plane and the sides. It'll give it about 2 weeks or so of protection, before rust will start to reappear. So I usually work the metal as soon as I can. Then coat it in my usual concoction.

2 cents.

Jimmy
 
OK, here is the wrench picture. I learned that the de-rusted parts pick up surface rust mightily quickly. I doctored this with a little WD-40 for the picture. The heavy rust was gone except for the adjustable jaw. I even wrapped the copper wire around this section and zapped for a couple days without noticeable results.
 

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