(early) April Fool: Possible changes to FWW

Jeff Horton

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Early APRIL FOOL! Please read my reply further down.

I have been PM'ing with the Admins on the forum. It seems we have been approached by a major tool importer that would like to sponsor the forum. They like what they see here and have approached us. They would cover all of our expenses and we would be able to offer some additional services that we currently don't offer. They have web site designers that could help us in several areas that could really improve the forum. They would help promote the forum with advertising and expect the forum could really grow quickly.

This would mean some changes would have to take place to. Obviously they would like to advertise their products on the forum. I think they would also like to add some forums specifically for their tools. I think they might want to moderate their forums?

While nothing is definite they would want some input on the forum management. To what extent, don't know yet. But if they were to pump in money and time they will want some say as to what happens. Nothing has been decided but it's an interesting offer. At this point it just talking and nothing has been decided. But we think it is something we should give some serious consideration too.
 
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It depends upon what they want to do, and how much interference. "Those with the gold make the rules".

But if the level of interference is acceptable, I would support it. Forums like this have to have financial support. There's no free lunch.

Mike
 
Hmm ...

Maybe i'm just a cynic ... but it smells kinda fishy to me. FWW isn't in need, right? And we're payin the bills fine already, yes? Many of us know how it feels on a forum that has grown fast.

It feels like FWW would be tainted, somehow, to me. I really like how it is. I want to stress, though, that I'm not one of those "ACK! CHANGE!!! BAD! NO CHANGE!" kind of people. I'm trying my best to be objective about this and it just ... i dunno ... i don't think the character of this place could be maintained with a commercial interest throwing its weight around. Maybe it's good ... for some forums. I'd just hate for THIS forum to lose what it has.

I won't even charge $.02 for this opinion :)
 
I think most people just don't like a change in the way they see things, and sometimes the ads necessitate a format change... but the Family Woodworking logo thingy at the top left of the screen leaves a blank area big enough for two and half more of the same size blocks to the right with no loss of 'space'.... so why not stick a Festool (or whatever) in there?
 
I can see good AND bad with this idea, and an ad at the top, (NO Pop Ups) would be OK, BUT basically, it would no longer be a MEMBER run Forum, which IS what the original basis of this Forum was and is all about. I would think this would merit a "LOT" of discussion before we change the whole idea of the Forum. Now if the Sponsor would agree to ONE vote like any other member, then maybeeeeeeee............:dunno::D ...........but a Sponsor moderated Forum,....No WAY. Growth can be a good thing, BUT we've all seen that growing too fast can certainly have it's downsides and problems too.

Just my $.02, (and you can even charge it):rolleyes::D
 
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FWIW - I would vote against this change in any format that I can personally conceive. As far as I recall the whole point of FW was that it was member run, transparent and democratic in nature. I find it impossible to see that those factors could be maintained.

Last time I checked we didn't need the money. Last time I checked we didn't need the expertise. If that has changed let us know and we will deal with it.

My opinion. One of many.
 
Sponsering is fine, advertise no problem, but taking over seems to me not a good idea, it's just a matter how far will they go,that's what you have to consider.
 
we would be able to offer some additional services that we currently don't offer. They have web site designers that could help us in several areas that could really improve the forum. They would help promote the forum with advertising and expect the forum could really grow quickly.

I'd like to see the first point expanded upon. What additional services that we currently don't offer? Do we even want/need these services?

The second point is also a big change... "expect the forum could really grow quickly". What sort of impact would this have on the forum. Wouldn't that dramatically increase the work of the mods and admins? are they up for that?

So far, too many questions to make intelligent comments. :wave:
 
.... I would be afraid that if they did we would no longer be able to have opinions about other tool brands.....

I was wondering a similar question. Let's say someone asks a question about model X that's imported by this sponsor. What happens when I used to own model X and sold it because I thought it was the worst waste of money I ever bought? Do I still get to post that?
 
Chuck Thoits wrote:
We can't have there mods being able to moderate other threads. I would be afraid that if they did we would no longer be able to have opinions about other tool brands.

Good point, Chuck, I agree the sponsor should only be able to moderate their own threads and also, the agreement should be in writing.

To take Chuck's point a step further, would there be repercussions from the vendor if critical comments on their product were posted under another thread they do not moderate? The ability to freely exchange experience and information on products brings tremendous value to this forum. While the agreement might be the company can only moderate or restrict postings to their particular threads, it could get interesting.

Also, there should be some language written into the agreement as to how the company would use information lifted from forum discussions (moderated by the company or otherwise) as far as endorsements. Technically, a signed release form should be obtained from the originating poster.

--MJ :type:
 
Sounds to political to me

seems we have this thing called a constitution that was wrote in 1776 and had some very good points in it which we were going to be governed by sounded great and worked for awhile but today its alittle different! major growth since then.... i feel this is another version of the same thing! we would loose our "by the people for the people" attitude we have now here in the forum... there would have to be a lot restrictions put on this vendor to maintain our control and not his, i also agree with A.Crom if we need something else we don't have ask us and see if we the FWW can come up with it not tool trader joe..
 
FF Sponsor

Hey
I really appreciate the open and friendly forum that its members have created.
When it comes to sponsorship, it is a slippery slope and a challenge to hit it just right.
1. Family woodworking has creative craftspersons that do buy/sell their personal work, tools etc and with PM, allows only long term members to conclude arrangements. Keep out the buy/sell rabble!
2. Commercial interests maybe allowed if their support(funding) is complemented by a strong contribution to better "family woodworking" practises that goes well beyond just their select tools or services.
My 2 cents.
Cheers
 
Camel's nose in the tent? You know the rest of the story.

And, he who has the gold, rules.

Technical support? Now, THAT"S ruling! And they also have the gold.

You wanna sell the farm, at least get big bucks for it. You wanna give it away, I vote no.
 
Jeff wrote:
They have web site designers that could help us in several areas that could really improve the forum.

Curious to know what areas... the program running this forum appears to be a customizable template. The admin can select colors, logo and add or remove discussion area titles, but I don't see any other Web site design needs offhand. If we need something designed, there are plenty of folks out there who would do it for a reasonable cost, and I would be willing to pay for that myself. This stuff isn't rocket science. :)

The part about the sponsor wanting a hand in forum management keeps coming back to mind, and I'd definitely want to see what role they wish to play other than moderating their own threads.

Thinking,

--MJ :huh:
 
Like it was said in a previous threrad when we were all putting our two cents in about the language issue " If it an't broke don't fix it". Sure getting financial help with some advertisiong is ok as well as some help preping up the site by a wed design team and help managing it might be nice but at what price? Do we really need it? This forum was created by the members and though we may all not agree and have the odd family squable it is the Family atmosphere that makes this site so attractive to people and obviously now companies. If it changed in any way it would lin my opinion loose that attraction and the charm that makes it so attractive. I hope that it does remain as it is and the guys who are interested in the site are welcome to join so long as they abide by the governing rules set out by the members. Maybe they have some good tips or input to add to the round house discussions?
 
AW, Come on Tony......don't hold back! Tell us what you're really thinking!!:thumb::rofl:
At first thought, I don't see the need for this. Now I do feel that the advertising that SMC has done is very tasteful and does not impact normal viewing, at least to this point. I would not be against something like that (and I was totally against it at the Creek, but now feel that I was wrong. Didn't fully understand what Keith had in mind)
But to bring in ONE sponsor, versus having advertising available to anyone wishing to pony up some dollars....I see that as a BIG problem. We would no longer be Family Woodworking, we would become "Joe Blow Tools Woodworking Forum". If this company wants to have a forum, no problem. Most tool companies do have one. I am curious why, with the original post saying they would offer website design help, why they don't just start their own if they don't have one now???:dunno: I don't believe the presentation of this forum needs to be slick. Families generally aren't slick, they are home spun, just enough graphics to make their friends comfortable. Companies are slick.
I'm interested enough to see what is being offered, and maybe it would be in a way that would be acceptable to most of us. But the initial thought, from what information is currently available to the members (I understand it is sketchy because it's not complete and in the infant stages of discussion) is that this is not the direction we need to go. I fear that our votes that could change this forum at our choice, would become a vote that would only result in submitting a proposal for change to a board of people we don't know, nor do we elect.
I'm not saying don't have the discussions, I'm just not sure it can be anything that would keep the Family the Family. Know what I mean?

Now, with all that said, what if we had a manufacturer's section where any of the Woodworking related companies could "rent" space, and have their own sub forum. A new heading like our General Woodworking Area, Tool And Equipment Area, etc? Have a Manufacturers Area. These areas can be moderated by the manufacturer, under the guidlines that FWW is operatiing under. ie, if we change something, it changes for them also. So still no links to adult stuff, no adult language, etc, etc. We would still have to have overall moderator control, and someone would have to be in charge of that, that could suspend something that was questionable until the poster, or the manufacturer changes it to follow the rules here. Can the software allow moderator control to the different manufacturers for their own little slice, and not the rest of the forum? If not, then this might be difficult to administer. Just another random thought! Jim.

ps. I could see how having several companies presence could be advantageous. Current information about new products, technical help on products one of us is having a problem with, or at least links to their techs. Things like this would/could be very beneficial. And if any of us don't want the intrusion, with our major areas "collapsable", you wouldn't even have to see who the companies are if you weren't interested. Jim.
 
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