Beef Question

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2,369
I have been thinking about raising some beef. I certainly have the land, and hay ground to feed them come winter, so its not a matter of if I should raise beef, its what type.

Hereford, Black Angus, Dexter or Highland...they all make sense as far as beef goes, but prices here for these kinds go for 400-500 dollars for a calf just off a bottle. That is pretty high I think. Since we have a working dairy farm in the family, I can get calf's at the going rate. I can probably barter my way for a few calfs, but at most I would pay 75 bucks a piece...what my aunt gets paid anyway for bull Holsteins and Jersey calfs.

I have been told that raising beef cows from milking stock is not very profitable. I will spend far more money on raising them per pound then real beef cows. I am trying to confirm that. With calfs of the better grade beef cows so high though, it seems like I would have a 400-500 dollar head start on the price. In other words I would have to raise the true beef cows until they were 3-4 years old instead of a 1½ with the dairy cows.

Maybe some figures will help. The last time I raised Steak, a Holstein Bull, I raised him from calf until he was 1½ years old. I am not sure what the live weight was, but he yielded 450 pounds of meat for my freezer. He went through about 60 bales of hay, and a bag of grain a month. (He liked calf grain with 3% molasses, so he got that. Hey I'm a softy deep down inside).

I can get my pick of Jerseys and Holsteins. I am thinking a Jersey may be a better choice. I have heard that Jersey-Black Angus cross-breeds taste great, so down the road I can either breed the Jersey bull to a Black Angus, sell the Jersey as super tasty grass-fed beef, or keep it for myself. In other words more options then Holsteins. Our Holsteins far out number our Jersey's however, and I can get a brute of a calf right now that is a Holstein. (How its itty-bitty mother passed that calf is unknown )

Anyway, I got a lot of choices here. I would love to start an all Black-Angus or Hereford herd, but the truth is, it would be a whole lot cheaper to start a herd from Holsteins and Jerseys since they are essentially free and already exist on the family farm. If you were in my position, what would you do?
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No one person here is smarter than all of us put together!!
 
If you're raising a beef calf for meat for your use, I'd pick one of the dairy cows and when you freshen her, have her bred to a good beef bull (I'm assuming you use artificial insemination - forty years ago (where I lived), the cost was very low because the state was supporting it to improve the herds.). We used to do that and the meat was always good, and the calf grew well (was big and had lots of meat). Of course, it's better if you get a male calf and turn him into a steer, but even heifers do okay.

If you have to sell a mixed (dairy/beef) cow, you don't get much but they work very well for your own use. But it's been 40 years since I lived on a farm, so take that for what it's worth.

[Added comment: 45 to 50 years ago, a good male whiteface calf (show quality), just weaned, would bring $200-$250. So prices haven't gone up that much. Also, we often got calves very young - don't remember why - and raised them on a nipple bucket. Just more work, and cost of the milk powder, but they did fine.]

Mike
 
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Travis, before you start pouring money into a cattle operation, make sure that you talk to some other people about what is involved. I have a friend in Tennessee who was raising cattle on his farm, and he had to give it up - getting up at all hours to go out into all sorts of weather to find calves, helping with the calving (mama cows don't always get it right), the expense of illnesses, medicines, colic, worming, etc. All of that finally got too much for him. Unless you start out with lots of bucks to support the operation, you'll be seeing red ink in a short time!!
 
Starting with the dairy calves can be an inexpensive way to get going. But, they won't bring top prices at the auction barn. However, using the initial profits you can buy some modern heifers (not the breeds you mentioned) and a decent bull. My recommendation would be Maine-Anjou crosses. Or standard breeds with a Maine or 3/4 Maine-cross bull. Your experience with the Holstein should tell you why. The dairy breeds are not bred to make muscle (meat) and you fed him much-much more than a modern beef breed would need to produce equivalent weight of beef. I understand what Nancy was cautioning about. I've been there, done that. Had to strip bare to the waist in below freezing weather with rain and sleet coming at me to pull a calf. Lot more hard work that wasn't fun at the time. Can't tell you how much I miss it. Giving up cattle was giving up a big part of my life. Even at my age, finances permitting, I would go back to it in a heartbeat.
Final suggestion, start going to your local auction barn. Watch and take notes on what sells well and prices brought. Get there early and have coffee with the regulars. Better'n a college edukation.
 
Holstein steers bring a premium if they are of the size to give the big 16 oz steaks! Otherwise, cheaper per pound than beef steers. Will bring the paper and prices to school next week and give you an auction report.
Any 4H quality/show quality calves bring in the neighborhood of 1-10 thousand dollars.
 
You obviously have way to much time on your hands Travis. Have you thought about a hobby? :D

Wish that was the case.

My Dad recently lost his job. The owner shut down the store with no warning, leaving Dad high and dry after 26 years of faithful work. He was also left 8 months shy of his retirement. Now he is scrambling for a stop gap measure in the income. At the same times taxes are really high this year and probably going up. COC rules prohibit talking about politics so I will just say, Maine has the highest taxes and its going up again this year.

Now you have a 34 year old son, a forced into retirement Dad, and a farm in limbo. We did not really plan for this to happen now, but if I can get a farm loan, I can buy the farm, (no pun intended). This will give my dad the money he needs to retire,and the family farm stays in the family.

Normally I would just call this another turn-over on the old family farm, but that is not the case. For years we have not really done anything super productive with this farm. It has just sat making a bit of money on light logging, and some corn and hay production. The amount of money it generated was squat really. Not even enough to pay the taxes, but we had enough income to get by just fine.

In a weeks time, things have changed. My Dad cannot afford taxes on 1200 acres and my Mom has a pretty affluent lifestyle. She wants to sell it off. My Dad wants to keep it in the family, and so do I. The problem is, with my 400 current acres, this would give me 1600 acres...quite a chunk. I can keep it, and make something with it, but only if I maximize its profitability. Simply put I just cannot work an outside job and be a large landowner.

After talking with dad it appears the only thing this land ever did profitably was grow trees and raise cows and potatoes. I don't have the equipment for potatoes farming, so cows looks like the venue I am taking.

In the last week I have spent more time calling the US Dept of Agriculture and will see a woman soon that will help me create a farm plan and get some training and classes in farming. I am an experienced farmer, but this is a new year and new times and a new world wide market. I could use the help.

I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment. This is all a gift horse no doubt, but a big one,and one that I can't kill. This is family land and has been in the family since King George the Second gave it to my Great Grandfather. I'd love to get out in the woodworking shop, but suddenly I got more important issues to deal with. Thankfully the US Dept of Agriculture in Maine anyway, is heavily involved in keeping the American Farm as farms and not house lots.

Most people don't realize the amazing pressure that is on the American Farm right now. Suddenly its at my door and I find myself with a lot of hard, tough decisions to make that will affect everything.
 
As someone who grew up on a farm, and as you probably know, farming is one of the most difficult businesses there is. The only way most farmers ever make any real money is by selling their land for development (houses). As I often told my dad, the big incentive for me to stay in college was the fear that if I flunked out I'd have to go back to the farm.

Mike
 
You all ready know my opinion on what to do with the farm. But thats just me.

If your going to raise beef to sell then bite the bullet and get beef cattle. Would you buy the cheap tool that takes five times as long to do a job as the expensive tool?
 
As someone who grew up on a farm, and as you probably know, farming is one of the most difficult businesses there is. The only way most farmers ever make any real money is by selling their land for development (houses). As I often told my dad, the big incentive for me to stay in college was the fear that if I flunked out I'd have to go back to the farm.

Mike

Often those who grow up on farms or in the country have a completely different viewpoint than those from cities. My early years were in the city. Houses were less than three feet apart. I knew this was not a natural way to live. As a newly married, we left the people crush as quickly as possible. We also left high incomes behind. I love the country way of life and enjoyed playing cowboy for 25 years. Not loving being broke in retirement but wouldn't go back for anything.
A statistic I once read said that less than 1% of the worlds population even owns any real estate. Travis, look at what you have. That land must put you in the top 0.001% of richest people in the world.
 
Often those who grow up on farms or in the country have a completely different viewpoint than those from cities. My early years were in the city. Houses were less than three feet apart. I knew this was not a natural way to live. As a newly married, we left the people crush as quickly as possible. We also left high incomes behind. I love the country way of life and enjoyed playing cowboy for 25 years. Not loving being broke in retirement but wouldn't go back for anything.
That's very true, Frank. Some of the kids of the neighbors loved the farm life and stayed there. If they went to college, they studied agricultural things so they'd be better able to run the farm.
But I loved the city. I hated the isolation of the farm (there were things that had to be done early in the morning, at noon and in the afternoon, 365 days/yr - and they couldn't be done any other time). You just couldn't escape the farm. Taking a vacation was a major effort - a reliable, knowlegeable person had to be found who could take care of the farm for the week or so that the family could be gone. For my whole childhood I can count the number of times we took a vacation on one hand and have fingers left over.

And the work was dirty. I'd wear boots and the mud and animal poop would work its way up along the outside of the boots (between my legs) as the two boots rubbed together.

I could go on and on but you get the idea. I became an engineer and NEVER missed life on the farm.

Mike
 
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Oh man...I can speak volumes on raising cattle.....

We used to finish out in our feedlot 600 head of cattle yearly. this was up until the mid 70's.....then we converted to raising feeder calves/show calves.

We had 300 head of crossbred cows that Michigan State University used to do their research on our herd.

....we provided the cow herd base and they loved to do the testing....

Think I have seen it all.....

Hereford and Angus in the late 60's.

....simmental cross in the 70's.....1976 I took Grand champion steer, Grand Champion Heifer, Grand Champion female, Best crossbred steer.....etc. at the State Fair. That is how I got my college education. Heck our herd was recognized years ago as one of the best crossbred herds in the midwest.

......next phase, Chianina, beefmaster,Maine anjou, Santa Gertrudas,.....yada yada yada....

....then came the Limousin cross in the mid 80's.......


...now I hear all the rage is Angus......wow we did that in the 60's.:huh:


long story short.....stick around long enough and the best breed will be ...the very one that was popular 40 years ago.

....so what would this old cowpuncher raise if he had the desire to raise meat again?:dunno:

HOGS!!!!!:thumb:

....buy them at $25.00 per 40 lbs. a few months later you are enjoying the other white meat. Too much time and $$$$ in cattle for, feed, facilities,time, meds, fencing, time,$$$$ output, time.....:eek:

....then if I still wanted to raise beef.....something with Angus or Black Limousin would be the choice.....and lots of time, pray they don't die in the meantime....cause they take time to finish out.
 
Travis, I have no experiance at cattle raiseing, but have found other ways to lose money. :wave:
Your situation sounds familiar. My wife's family went from dairy farming, to potatoe farming, to logging. The dairy cows were sold because the mother-in-law was tired of chasing cows all over the county. I don't think my father-in-law ever really got over it, he really liked the life. They then grew around 120 acres of potatoes for about 10 years, but as the kids got older they started fleeing to the hills to get away from the hard work for small pay. They now own logging related businesses. John runs a logging Co. and is quite successful. Bruce did have a logging co. but quit that and now is an owner/operator of a log hauling business. he is doing real well. They have the largest wild woodland simulated gensing plot in the world on 80 acres, but that went bust when viagra hit the market. Now we are talking with a company about putting 6, 600 ft. tall windmills on the property.
It helps to get some good breaks come your way. Sometimes it takes unconventional thinking to make things work. There's always risk. Heck, maybe you aught to fence the whole thing in and run a hunting preserve. Maybe buffalo or beefalo. There's all kinds of ways to lose money, and you just might get lucky and do right well. Good luck with it all. ( If I had the room/land I'd raise some holstein steers for steaks and such to feed that army I have. I like the taste of them dairy cows v.s. the beef breeds)
 
We used to raise calves from Hereford Cows bred with a Black Angus Bull, and the steaks tasted great, less waste per carcass, and they always brought top dollar at the sale. If you go to a lot of restaurants now in Tx, you will see the regular steak menu, and then you will see the pages with the Black Angus Steaks for about 1/3 more $$$ ............. Get the Picture????

I do love those Black Angus steaks, and absolutely hate those Milk cow tasting steaks from so many of those Fast Growing Breeds. They may be fast growing, but what difference does that make if they don't bring as many dollars per pound?

Do your research WELL before you jump, and I wish you the very best success at whatever you decide, and I truly appreciate your desire to keep the family farm in the family. My Grandfather hated farming, and it literally killed my Grandmother when he sold their farm after the boys were grown and not there to do the farming for him. Unfortunately my Dad wasn't able to buy it at the time and always regretted that he couldn't. I do still have 40 acres of the original farm though.
 
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I do love those Black Angus steaks, and absolutely hate those Milk cow tasting steaks from so many of those Fast Growing Breeds. They may be fast growing, but what difference does that make if they don't bring as many dollars per pound?

Actually I have been doing a lot of online research about this. (Hey I had to watch Alyson all day yesterday so it was not like I could get out in the shop. I also have been working on my "farm Plan" and needed some research done, but that is another story).

Anyway it seems that raising Holsteins is not all that bad of an idea. You may be eating Holstein Beef and not even know it, it does make up 10-14% of the beef market in the united states. Holstein are unique in that they have very little fat to them to. They store the majority of their fat on the outside of their muscles which can easily be trimmed away. While their overall end weight is less, you end up getting more better cuts of meat out of them.

Of course this only matters depending on how you market the animal. If you just sell it to a slaughter house, you get a straight price for the live weight. But if you process the beef yourself, you can get a better price for the cuts; assuming a person wants to go that route. Some claim they make more money raising "dairy cows" for beef then the typical breeds because of this. I am kind of doubtful of that claim though.

I guess the biggest drawback with Holstein Beef is the marbling effect. They get some great marbling, but you must finish feed them with a high corn diet towards the end of their life. Right now corn is pretty high as the grain farmers are holding out waiting for something to happen with this ethanol legislation. That makes a high grain diet pretty expensive, but I think the price of corn is going to bottom out myself. I know milk prices are going down, and the farmers have held on to grain for quite a bit now. With Spring planting right around the corner, they will have to get rid of that grain to make room for the new crop at some point in the next few months. That will drop the price of corn, and thus grain, and maybe make Holstein raising viable.:dunno:

One of the areas I really need to work on right now on my Farm Plan, is the marketing aspect of things. I really need to figure out how I am going to market these cows and make a plan to get them to ideal market conditions as quickly as possible.
 
Often those who grow up on farms or in the country have a completely different viewpoint than those from cities. My early years were in the city. Houses were less than three feet apart. I knew this was not a natural way to live. As a newly married, we left the people crush as quickly as possible. We also left high incomes behind. I love the country way of life and enjoyed playing cowboy for 25 years. Not loving being broke in retirement but wouldn't go back for anything.
A statistic I once read said that less than 1% of the worlds population even owns any real estate. Travis, look at what you have. That land must put you in the top 0.001% of richest people in the world.

When I read your posts Frank, I think of my own life growing up. There is not a day that goes by that I don't miss farming or the farm life, and part of me wants to make sure Alyson gets this experience too. I even feel guilty about not spending time on the dairy farm, though they have enough hired help to do everything they need to do. Sometimes I kick in and help, but not nearly enough really.

Still I can see Mike's viewpoint too. He is like my Dad. He hates cows and all he wanted to do was get out of farming. Of course back then the USDA was not so nice, with more farms then what was needed, they were looking to down size in a sense and had no ambition to help the farmer. Now that Maine has less then 400 farms in this state, they have changed their attitude and are very eager to help the farmers, especially younger aged farmers like myself with established farms. Now keep in mind my land now is currently considered a working farm so that puts me in a different bracket then most people.

Maine has always had an influx of outsiders that move in and have a desire to "homestead" and grow their own food and be self-sufficient. For the people who want to do this and yet lack land enough to graze cattle, grass fed, tender and organic Holstein beef may be a niche market to go after? Its kind of the rage right now in Maine, and with only 8 cattle producers doing this, it might be something to try. As I said, I got to find a good, stable market.

Initially I approached the USDA for a loan, but I think that may be premature. I think a better approach right now is to utilize their farm planning services for all its worth,and create a working farm plan with a heavy lean on marketing.
 
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