Good Day at the Show

Tony Falotico said:

Nope, probably just me jumping the gun and jumping on my bandwagon! Cell phones in the hands of RUDE cell phone users irritate me to no end. Don't know what is like on your side of the pond, but over here most folks (NOT ALL) forget basic manners when they have a cell phone.

Sorry for jumping on my bandwagon, I tend to do that often!

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I kind of agree with you, but at the same time the customer is always right too. Two wrongs really don't make a right, especially in business.

Just how I see it...a different way of looking at it...I am not starting something with you at all here.

Tony Falotico said:

Nope, probably just me jumping the gun and jumping on my bandwagon! Cell phones in the hands of RUDE cell phone users irritate me to no end. Don't know what is like on your side of the pond, but over here most folks (NOT ALL) forget basic manners when they have a cell phone.

Sorry for jumping on my bandwagon, I tend to do that often!

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No problem Tony. I have pretty much abandoned the use of mine. I keep it in the van so that if I get lost on the way to a delivery I can call the customer. Apart from that everything will wait until I am near a real phone.

I suspect that our "mobile" culture is at least as bad, if not worse, than yours.

I always think of the young couple I saw walking down a road near home. Her right hand was holding his left hand and you think "Ain't love grand". Then you see that his right hand is holding a cellphone into which he is animatedly talking. And her left hand is holding a cellphone into which she is animatedly talking. I still wonder whether they were actually talking to each other but had forgotten that you could do it without a phone.

Congrats on a successful show Vaughn. I've been there also... it's mid morning and I haven’t made enough sales yet to cover my table fee, let alone gas to drive to the show. But like your recent show, usually things do pick up. In the 3 years I've been going to shows, I've only actually lost money once. Usually, even in the spring shows I'll go home with couple hundred bucks profit after expenses. (I sell mostly gift type items that usually only sell well in fall). When I start to get depressed about lack of sales, MY booth bunny is quick to remind me that shows almost ALWAYS go in spurts. Nothing at all for a hour or more, then all of a sudden you have 3 people with a widget in their hand waving money at you at once. After a flurry, it's calmed down until the next "wave". Haven’t figured it out yet. Might be the "I gotta have one also" effect. People walking past booths see one that is busy (mine), and they figure it must have good stuff for that many people to be standing there buying, so they stop also. Hard to say that is ther reason for spurts, because I'm always on the inside during siad spurt trying to take care of people in the order they picked up an item and said they want one. (hard to do itself sometimes when you're head is spinning making change, writing reciepts etc).

Cardinal rule? Naahhh... I price most of my stuff depending on the level of the show I'm at, and will indeed change as the day goes depending on sales. There are shows that are only a notch above a flea market, say $30 a table, and then there are juried shows that cost $500 a table and up. My prices vary accordingly. Again, I have lowered prices when things weren't going well, but with limited success. Most of my items are not in the same price range as Vaughn's, they are lower priced gift items. Thus there is a limit to how low I can go. I have had success with the "Show Special" approach. Normally $24 but for this show, knocked down to $19. People like getting a bargain, or perceiving it to be such. One thing I never do is sell "seconds". When I make a run of something, there is always a few pieces that are perfect EXCEPT for that little hairline crack or chip or whatever. I'm not willing to sell it like that, but also have learned to not sell it at a show but cheaper because of the defect, even if said defect does not alter the function of beauty of the item. All that does is take away from a sale of undamaged "good" pieces.

Congrats on your show and your sales, Vaughn. Now if you'd just send some of those moneybags buyers my way, I'd appreciate it!!

Dave Kauffman said:

Cardinal rule? Naahhh... I price most of my stuff depending on the level of the show I'm at, and will indeed change as the day goes depending on sales. There are shows that are only a notch above a flea market, say $30 a table, and then there are juried shows that cost $500 a table and up. My prices vary accordingly. Again, I have lowered prices when things weren't going well, but with limited success. Most of my items are not in the same price range as Vaughn's, they are lower priced gift items. Thus there is a limit to how low I can go.

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I have another little ploy that I use for the lookee-loos who come by, get all excited about something, and say "I'll be back." I have "Be Back Bucks" printed - little coupons for a dollar off any item over $10.00. When someone tells me they'll be back, I give them one of my Be Back Bucks and tell them they can redeem it when they return and buy something. Works about 95% of the time. I get more sales that way---when people think they are getting a real bargain.

Nancy Laird said:

...I have another little ploy that I use for the lookee-loos who come by, get all excited about something, and say "I'll be back." I have "Be Back Bucks" printed - little coupons for a dollar off any item over $10.00. When someone tells me they'll be back, I give them one of my Be Back Bucks and tell them they can redeem it when they return and buy something. Works about 95% of the time. I get more sales that way---when people think they are getting a real bargain.

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Nancy I LOVE that idea. Mind if I "borrow" if for some of my shows also? Only catch is if folks caught on to it and used it to their advantage. Then again, you're still making a sale even if that was the case, just a buck light. I suppose the few times that might happen wouldn't come close to the extra sales you get from the ones that truly were'nt coming back, but now will. Great idea. Did you think that one up yourself or see that somewhere else?.. just curious.

Wow! That is cool.
You do beautiful work so I'm not surprised that you did well.

Dave Kauffman said:

Nancy I LOVE that idea. Mind if I "borrow" if for some of my shows also? Only catch is if folks caught on to it and used it to their advantage. Then again, you're still making a sale even if that was the case, just a buck light. I suppose the few times that might happen wouldn't come close to the extra sales you get from the ones that truly were'nt coming back, but now will. Great idea. Did you think that one up yourself or see that somewhere else?.. just curious.

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Yes, Dave, you most certainly can borrow that idea--I borrowed it from another crafter at a show about 3 years ago. I use different colored paper for each show, so someone doesn't show up at show #3 with a Be-Back Buck from show #1.

I'll second the "great idea" comment, Nancy. I could see it working on different scales, depending on the general price point of your goods. For example, I could see myself handing out similar coupons good for $10 off on the price of anything over $100.

Great news Vaughn!
I worked an Arts and Crafts show this weedend past as well. I'm satisfied with my results, was hoping for a little more, but can't complain. I was into it for about 500 bucks (200 entry fee, and almost 300 for the canopy and other display stuff I bought for the event). I cleared that and more on Saturday and had high hopes for Sunday, but it was slower, total sales for the weekend $1300. Mostly cutting boards, and wood jewelry, but I did sell my first bowl. Brought a few small furniture pieces that got lots of complements but no takers. Most of the show was crafty stuff i.e. scented candles, bead jewelry, and other knick-nacks, so customers probably had some sticker shock when they came to my booth. One big thing I realized was I need to Jazz up my presentation, it was pretty basic. Things like the greenery you have hanging from your overhead is a little thing that helps, I now know. There was a very savvy gal next to me who has been doing shows for years and she gave me some good schooling on the psychology of presentation and sales. I didn't negotiate prices much since I felt I had things already priced pretty low, but I did offer 10% off for cash purchases.
It's good to know another woodworker was out in the Craft Show trenches last weekend! Barry

Congrats. Barry. $1300 is a lot better than any weekend I've done so far. (I've done a whopping total four shows, and two of them I came up a little bit short of my entry fees.)

I'll be back in the trenches during the last weekend of this month in South Pasadena. Do you have any more coming up?

I dont make art, I lack the talent, but I do make adirondack chairs, and similar straight foward outdoor type of things. (planters, bbq carts)

Ive sold a few items, and it gets very frustrating for me to sell a chair, that is perfectly assembled and cut, that sells in any outdoor furniture store for 100-150, for 60 dollar after Ive asked 75, and the people just seem to want to shoot me down in price further and further.
I dont do this for a living, its a hobby.
But at the request of my wife and several friends, who pump me up and say, wow, this stuff is beautiful, try selling it and see if you can make some dough.
Ive estimated the time and materials I put into one item, and the public just doesnt understand that if Im going to end up making 6 dollars an hour for my efforts, Id rather not sell it.

There are quite a few village flea markets, arts and crafts festivals, and Im pretty sure I can sell a few items, its just the hassle of moving all this stuff, having to deal with all the people who insisnt on knocking you down until youre paying them to take it off your hands, well, its best if I just make a few and give them as gifts instead of buying something for 30 or 40 bucks, at least then my labor doesnt bother me and I know they appreciate it.

who doesnt enjoy sitting on their patio or deck in a nice comfy chair and drinking a beer or a glass of wine in the evening? (most people do, so I know I have a product that is used)

I often over the years travel up to rhinebeck ny for the arts and crafts show every may. Im super impressed with the talent I see there.
I purchase my fair share.

Vaughn, I'm not planning any more this season, there are a couple more in the valley, but my inventory is low. Shows wind down here during the hot months. I plan to build up an inventory and hit it hard next fall, at least 2 major shows anyhow. As you noted in your post, success for we that are more "art" than "craft" has a lot to do with the affluence of the neighborhood the show is held in. I plan on selecting my next shows that have an emphasis on art and were people are known to have lots of disposable income Good luck on your next show! Barry

allen levine said:

I dont make art, I lack the talent, but I do make adirondack chairs.....

Ive sold a few items, and it gets very frustrating for me to sell a chair, that is perfectly assembled and cut, that sells in any outdoor furniture store for 100-150, for 60 dollar after Ive asked 75, and the people just seem to want to shoot me down in price further and further.
I dont do this for a living, its a hobby....

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Well Allen - fwiw I also make adirondack chairs (I figure I am up to about 3000 of them now) and I don't do this for a hobby, its a living (most of the time).

You are arguing with perception and possibly in the wrong market. I never set out to make a cheap chair. I started making them because all i could find was cheap and nasty chairs so I made what I wanted to the level of finish that I wanted. I make a good quality product, make it well and try and sell it at a fair price. I get people who tell me things like "I can get a chair in such and such for half that price". To which my response is usually something like "Great, I hope that it does what you want, if not you know where I am for next time".

Here's a secret. You don't have to get every sale. You (because its a hobby to you) don't have to get any sales really. Sounds to me like what you are doing is undervaluing what you do to start off with and then colluding with other people to undervalue it even further by denying yourself the right to only sell your work at a price that you feel is fair to you and your purchaser. Why, for a start, is your work only worth half as much as the stuff in an outdoor furniture store. Is it only half as good? I would bet that it is probably appreciably better. So you ought to look at increasing that price because than you will feel rewarded enough to make absolutley sure that the quality is better.

If your happy to let people frustrate you by undervaluing your work you will probably end up getting frustrated by the whole hobby. Personally I choose not to.

When I used to do shows I would get people saying things like "£250! I could make one just like that out of wood from pallets!". There is a technical business name for people like this. They are called idiots and to be honest are best left to their own devices.

I hope this doesn't come across preachy 'cos its not intended to be - just some thoughts from someone who spends too much of his time thinking about stuff like this.

I appreciate all input.

Its frustrating to me because although Im only in for a bit over 2 years, Ive used a plan for a chair that is by far the most comfortable wooden chair Ive ever sat my "bum" in.
I can cut the chairs with a straight seat, a straight back, and save tons of time on cutting, but it wouldnt be the chair I want to make.

I dont have the overhead costs of of a large furniture store.
I dont have to ship the chairs in, store them, open a showroom everyday, and so on.
While I use mostly pretreated lumber for the chairs I sell, I do have people Ive cut chairs for out of woods costing 8 times the amount and they gladly pay me and think they are getting the best deal of their lifetime(as far as purchasing outdoor furniture)

My usual response to people who start with the price cutting, is I just tell them to sit in that chair. I explain to them they are already getting a bargain price, and they will never sit in a chair made out of wood that is so comfortable they will never need a cushion.
If I have to explain more than that to them, I simply will tell them, this isnt the chair for you. Im sorry, I dont compete with assembly line furniture places, and I cant meet their prices(even though Ive never seen a chair made out of pretreated lumber cheaper than what I sell them for)

I have my chairs all over the the 5 boroughs of New York and Long Island.
When someone Ive given a chair to calls me to tell me how wonderful and comfortable it is, to thank me for the work, thats worth more than the 50 dollars I profit from the chair.

Ive owned a small retail store for 25 years, been working there for almost 32 years, so dealing with retail customers is not such a personal thing for me.
Im somewhat successful, dont cry about money, put 2 kids through college, have a decent home and nice cars, but when I put my feelings into something, even if its only an adirondack chair, or table, its my baby, each and every one, and then I take it a bit more personal. Cant help it. I care about the work I do like all craftsman, and I use the term lightly when I refer to myself.
I figure Ive made around 50 chairs, the first dozen I have since scrapped.

allen levine said:

...Im somewhat successful, dont cry about money, put 2 kids through college, have a decent home and nice cars, but when I put my feelings into something, even if its only an adirondack chair, or table, its my baby, each and every one, and then I take it a bit more personal. Cant help it. I care about the work I do like all craftsman, and I use the term lightly when I refer to myself...

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Allen this is an interesting post... I'm only going on my 4th year selling at shows, but I've learned a few cold hard facts. I learned that MOST folks in MOST shows (especially non-juried "low end" shows) just don't understand nor appreciate the difference between my furniture quality footstool for example, and something knocked out in 12 minutes (and looks like it was). Mine is made from solid cherry or oak and sanded and finished like a fine piece of furniture. It ain't over till the fat lady sings? Well the fat lady can jump up and down on my stool and it won't collapse. The other is quickly bandsawn out of who knows what wood and where he/she got it, lightly sanded if at all and then banged together quick and dirty with a nail gun. Nail holes not filled... hardened glue seeping from some of the joints. Mine takes two hours to make rough lumber to finished product, but is worthy of a piece in a living room full of other fine furniture. It also costs twice as much as the cheaper one three booths down. My point in all this is... I'm not complaining that folks don't apreciate the finer furniture quality of my stool I've taken pride in producing. Some just don't care... some just can't afford a furniture quality stool. Many really can't see the difference... they're both wooden stools... they choose the cheaper one 'cause it's cheaper. Nature of the beast. If all I wanted to do was make a few bucks, I'd knock out my version of the cheaper stool, slap them together and maybe sell more stools, cheaper, but quantity would trump price of the better stool so in long run I'm making more money. But... can't do that. I wouldn't enjoy making junk... I'd feel I was cheating the customer for one thing. Not that you need my advice, you've been in the retail world a whole lot longer than I have been, but I'd keep making the quality chair you do, and market it as such. From what you say there are many who do appreciate it. Sounds like a comfortable chair. Just don't lose sleep over the "ignorance" for lack of a better word, of the public when it comes to woodworking or how long it takes to make a quality product as opposed to a furniture mill or a chair made in Malaysia from mystery wood.

In a similar vein, even in my short time doing the shows I've had to explain to quite a few people that if they want a useful inexpensive wooden bowl, they need to go to Ikea or Wally World. If they want something they'd more likely have on the mantle than in the kitchen, perhaps they would like one of my bowls.

And I have a stock answer when people look at a hollow form and say "what do you use these for?" I tell them most folks use them just as they would a painting. Then they seem to get it. But I figure if they have to ask what it's for, they're probably not going to buy it.

Congrats Vaughn!

Great news Vaughn. Glad you had a good day of it. All of those pieces pictured look fabulous.

Good to see you had a good day Vaughn.
The one I like best is....... wait for it.................... Oh i wouldn't pay that much for that, I can make that at home for nothing.
I am gonna try the Be Back buck this summer when our shows start up.
We vender's at fair have a saying. If I had a nickel for every time I heard I'll be back today, we wouldn't be vending at fair any more.