Going Green??

Denise Walsh

Member
Messages
114
Location
Georgia
Well...I've decided we need to have a greenhouse built on the property. I've got our garden 'almost' planted for this year but want to plan ahead... (actually Marty thinks I'm out of control with it). :rolleyes: Marty's been a huge help with the tilling portion of it and today he set out a soaker hose system that is absolutely wonderful :thumb:

So far, I've planted a 115' x 50' plot of garden out behind the Studio and bought over 200 potted plants to go in it. Although I was able to buy them somewhat on a discount it was still expensive. My goal is to build a greenhouse and this winter start our own tomatoes, peppers, etc to plant next spring. It will also serve as a haven for our ferns and other miscellaneous house plants over the winter.

I'm not 100% certain what the greenhouse should be built like. Has anyone here ever built a greenhouse? If so please share your ideas with us... :)

All I know for sure is that I am going to have a slab floor (my guess is about 12 x 12) and I have 37 window panes (remnants from the Studio) to incorporate into the build. I'd also like to have a small shed (or closet) with access from the outside for rakes/shovels/etc. on the north side.

If you have any ideas to share it would be so wonderful.

Like the Studio we're only going to do this 'Once'... :) So we want to do it right :thumb:

Any helpful tips/ideas would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks in advance!!

Denise
 
Denise,

There's a guy who is a member here.....For the love me I can't remember his name....from Carlyle, IL....He is a professional florist and has green houses and I'm sure he can give you some really good recommendations. Boy I hate having these senior moments and unable to remember names. I was going to visit him last September when I was in southern Illinois but it didn't work our for either of us.......We were delayed due to detours and he had 4 weddings to do on that Saturday.......Golly I hope he'll forgive me ....:eek:

It came to me Joe Mioux.
 
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Hi Denise!

I guess it does not get that cold in your part of the world, would you need to worry at all about providing some heat source? If you did, I would consider some sort of radiant heat in the slab, no mess to deal with, at least in the green house.

Good luck, and get the camera from Marty, so we can all see some pics! :wave:
 
I can't tell you much about a green house but I can tell you that there is a book on gardening that will help you plant as much as you'll ever need to eat & give away in a whole lot less space & cut down a lot on the work involved to take care of it. You'll eat good have beautiful flowers, Herbs & vegetables that work together to help each other grow & protect each other etc & a whole lot less work in less area to take care of.

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

We checked out the book from the library for the 1st 3 years then purchased our own book. After our experience I would never go back to row gardening.

I doesn't have to be as complicated as it may appear in the picture I had a 18' x 20' garden enclosed in 8" donated concrete block. You don't even really need a a enclosed border. My dream is to have a raised bed with a bench around the border to sit on as I reach across the 4' wide bed. when you can get around all 4 sides of the bed you can easily reach the whole bed, its the same if you can only get to apposing sides. It really makes gardening easy & fun.
 
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Hi, Denise,:wave: where you been? I saw a green house in Switzerland that I really liked. The floor wasn't a solid slab though, it had 3' wide concrete walkways between/around the plant benches, but directly under the benches they had about 1" sized crushed stone about 4" deep (and level with the concrete walk strips). They said that setup allowed any water that drained from the benches to soak into the ground below without making a mess, and kept the walkways from being wet all the time. It was a really nice setup and very neat. Boy, did they ever grow some great eating material there too.:thumb:
 
Well...I've decided we need to have a greenhouse built on the property. I've got our garden 'almost' planted for this year but want to plan ahead... (actually Marty thinks I'm out of control with it). :rolleyes: Marty's been a huge help with the tilling portion of it and today he set out a soaker hose system that is absolutely wonderful :thumb:

So far, I've planted a 115' x 50' plot of garden out behind the Studio and bought over 200 potted plants to go in it. Although I was able to buy them somewhat on a discount it was still expensive. My goal is to build a greenhouse and this winter start our own tomatoes, peppers, etc to plant next spring. It will also serve as a haven for our ferns and other miscellaneous house plants over the winter.

I'm not 100% certain what the greenhouse should be built like. Has anyone here ever built a greenhouse? If so please share your ideas with us... :)

All I know for sure is that I am going to have a slab floor (my guess is about 12 x 12) and I have 37 window panes (remnants from the Studio) to incorporate into the build. I'd also like to have a small shed (or closet) with access from the outside for rakes/shovels/etc. on the north side.

If you have any ideas to share it would be so wonderful.

Like the Studio we're only going to do this 'Once'... :) So we want to do it right :thumb:

Any helpful tips/ideas would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks in advance!!

Denise

i don`t see no stinkin` garden;)
 
Dear Denise,

Yes, I've built and used greenhouses in the south... biggest one was 32 feet long. Have to run to work, but I'll try to do a write up sometime today.

You can build a really nice one for not too much money, as long as you forget the concrete, and forget the glass... ;) A *really* nice one... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
When I was a youth, I worked every summer for a greenhouse operation in southern Ontario. I picked millions of tomatoes, and later on cucumbers, and planted poinsettias in August.

To this day I dislike the smell of tomato plants (still love to eat the fruit) and can't stand the feel of the plants. Makes it tough as my wife loves to plant tomatoes in her garden. We have an "understanding". :rolleyes:

But as I read your email I'm trying to reconcile it with reading Marty's stories about how hot it gets there in the summer. A greenhouse is going to be unbearable down there in the summer -- cook to a crisp anything left in it.

Have you considered just building a few cold frames instead to get your plants started? Cold frames can be low on the ground, or a variation could be a vertical "temporary" greenhouse, Like this one (current May/June issue of Canadian Home Workshop magazine)

Permanent greenhouses are hot and humid environments. Wood will rot quicker. Where I grew up, all the greenhouses were being converted to galvanized steel for the structural frames. They also changed from glass to plastic also.

If you're going to build your own, you might want to look at something like an automatic window opener. It is important to not cook your plants when it gets hot in there!

If you just want a slightly earlier start on the season, we use things like these frost protectors (aka tomato cosies) which let us put plants out in the garden over a month early. They act like mini greenhouses. Cloche's are another thing that does a similar job. Or for a garden your size, you could get a row cover.

Do you get the Lee Valley garden catalogs? Start browsing!
 
I am in the same climate, just a bit north east of you guys. So yea, useless in the summer but I am sure you know that. I am assuming your just thinking winter use.

Two considerations. I haven't built a green house but years ago I looked VERY SERIOUSLY into passive solar heating a house. Which is basically/very similar to a greenhouse. With our sunshine it can be subject to HUGE temprature swings. hot by day and can then freeze at night. So you will have to heat it or loose you plants to freezing.

One thing to consider is passive heat storage. There are lots of ways to do this. Concrete and water are two common methods. I have read about pits under the buildings filled with LARGE stones. Hot air was pushed through the stones to heat them in the day and keep the temp down in the building. Then at night the air from the warmer rocks help to keep the building warm.

Same idea but use 55 gallon drums painted dark and filled with water. In the direct sun they heat up and then give off that heat at night. They can be used as stands with plant on top too. Or put on a back wall out of the way but in the sun. There are a lot methods and I am sure there are new ones I have not heard of.

It's a lot of work but if you can insulate the windows at night that will hep keep the temperature swings down too.

If all this interests you I would suggest Googleing "Passive Solar". Bet you can find lot of on houses and some on greenhouses. It is the same principle for both though.
 
hi Denise.

I can give you all kinds of info regarding greenhouses....

I have built them, grown in them, and torn them down, and then built some more.

Air volume is key, Since you are in GA, make sure you have lots of air flow through the greenhouse.

this means some sort of roof venting and side venting.

anything in the 12 x12 size range is going to heat up really quick on warm days and get really cold on cold days.

if I were you I would go 8' side walls. with a 12/4 pitch for the roof. I would also try to incorporate a Ridge Vent that can open and close. Actually you could make the entire roof a vent.

If you go to www.van-wingerden.com you can see an example of this type of ventilation on their intro page.

It's basically just a rack and pinion mechanism that opens and closes the roof.

If you need any questions answered just call me or pm me.

joe
 
Dear Denise,

Sorry it took so long to get back to this... and this message may get interrupted at any moment... so maybe I'll break it into sections...

I have had greenhouses and gardens in california, texas, maryland, mass, tenn, penn... but the best one I ever had was in alabama, and that's probably closest to your situation. Here's my best guess: your average first frost will be sometime in early november (although there's sometimes a risk much earlier). Average lowest low in winter will be somewhere between 10 and 15, and last frost will come around in march (with a much later risk of close calls). Unlike the north, you have two growing seasons: spring into early summer, late summer well into fall. Oh... and a world of red clay. And lots of space.

Under these conditions, yes, you absolutely need a greenhouse. You will use it in all seasons. But it is nothing like the greenhouses northerners build.

First, you need to know greenhouses are like shops: the bigger the better. But for a much different reason. You're essentially building a manageable ecosystem, and the bigger it is, the more the termperature fluctuations will be evened out. It sounds counter intuitive, but the bigger it is, the easier it is to take care of.

What makes greenhouses expensive is not the structure... you'll find that's fairly cheap. What makes them expensive is the heating and cooling, and I'm here to tell you, you don't need either one. I kept my 32' alabama greenhouse from freezing all winter with one candle, and kept it at ambient temperature in summer with two box fans.

The secret to leveling out temperature swings is lots of passive heat storage, in the form of water. It's why you don't want a concrete floor. You need a pond inside, and it needs to go down below soil level at least two feet, three is better, and needs to be framed up a couple feet above ground level. The more water volume you can get into it, the better: mine was 8' across and 4' wide. A very small pump recirculates the water, but even an aquarium bubbler would do, you just need the water to be acting as a heat transfer conduit. The fact that you can have goldfish and water lillies in the pond is just an advantage... ;)

Whoops, gotta go, more later...


Thanks,

Bill
 
Ok, so, next step: foundation and structure. The structure is determined by the skin. Believe it or not, glass is just about the worst thing to use. It breaks, it cracks, it's structurally unforgiving. My strongest recommendation is something like this: http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GF-6MC

If you use it, the best "frame" is treated wood. The uprights should come up at about a ten degree angle (or is that 80 degrees? ;) ) There should be a peak down the center of the roof. I don't have the terms, but the frame should be made a little like the barn-like sheds you see for sale. What I'm trying to describe is called a snow country greenhouse in this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0897214633/h20thousecom

I used plywood gussets to connect the treated 2x4s at the angles: three gussets for each arch, one arch every four feet. The secret is to have the plastic BOTH outside and inside, with four inches of dead air between them. Easy to build, you can build it as long as you want, your width will be determined by the width of the plastic roll: if you can get a 25' by 100 foot roll, you can build something ten feet wide by 36' long.

You want both a door and a window in each end. The window is sized to exactly hold a box fan. Windows and doors must seal well in winter. You need long builtin benches... about 24-30 inches high, built along both sides, and covered with treated slats. You need a surface to reliably hold pots and trays, and that water will easily go through.

I used landscape timbers as dead men for the foundation, and nailed treated 2x4s all the way around, on top of them, so I'd have a good surface to attach the arches to. The best thing to use for the floor is several inches of pea gravel. At one end, attached but outside the door, you should have a potting shed. Same structure as greenhouse, but actual wood. Don't be termpted to use the greenhouse as a potting shed. You need storage, work space, etc. The greenhouse is for growing plants, and every bit is precious... ;)

Doorlink wants back on the computer, so more later... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
Very interesting Bill.

My great grandmother's place had an old greenhouse, on the farm, or what used to be a farm, she had two ponds in it, much like you described, built up with rocks and mortar about 18" above ground level, must have been what you are talking about here. As kids, we loved to try to catch the goldfish in the ponds!

Cheers!
 
We still got snow on the ground here, so I will have to stay out of the construction method side of things, but my Grandparents had a greenhouse and they did very well with it. It was not a full-time occupation, but they made enough with their butter making, milk production and yes greenhouse sales in the Spring to live well on the farm.

I think you have to plan it well. We have had a lot of people from out of state move in, build massive greenhouses, then get in way over their heads financially and have to sell their place. I am sure that has to do with our climate here, but I would caution ANYONE regardless of where they live, to try to keep the overhead low, at least at first.

As for the gold fish Stu, we have used gold fish for years in our watering trough on the farms. For 25 cents at Walmart you can get a gold fish that cleans the algae out of the waterer. Clean water for a cow means they drink more water, and the more water they drink means more milk they produce. (Not to mention being healthier cows to boot) In all my years on the farm, I only remember once when a cow accidentally drank a gold fish.
 
Denise,

There's a guy who is a member here.....For the love me I can't remember his name....from Carlyle, IL....

.......Golly I hope he'll forgive me ....:eek:

It came to me Joe Mioux.

Hello Ken... I have those "S" moments myself and I hate when that happens... :rolleyes: Thanks for sharing about Joe... :)

Hi Denise!

I guess it does not get that cold in your part of the world, would you need to worry at all about providing some heat source?
Good luck, and get the camera from Marty, so we can all see some pics! :wave:


Stu... it does get cold enough to warrant heating a greenhouse in this area. This past winter we had a few nights that dipped down into the teens.

Pictures will definitely be taken... :)

I can't tell you much about a green house but I can tell you that there is a book on gardening that will help you plant as much as you'll ever need to eat & give away in a whole lot less space & cut down a lot on the work involved to take care of it.

Bart... thanks for the reference. However, I enjoy having a large garden... and we're doing things within the garden to make sure the workload is not overbearing...:thumb:

Hi, Denise,:wave: where you been? I saw a green house in Switzerland that I really liked. The floor wasn't a solid slab though, it had 3' wide concrete walkways between/around the plant benches, but directly under the benches they had about 1" sized crushed stone about 4" deep (and level with the concrete walk strips). They said that setup allowed any water that drained from the benches to soak into the ground below without making a mess, and kept the walkways from being wet all the time. It was a really nice setup and very neat. Boy, did they ever grow some great eating material there too.:thumb:



Hey Norm!! :wave: I've been right here... but staying very busy lately. We finally took a break yesterday and got some fishing poles wet... but other than that it has been work, work, work...:( After I mentioned having a full slab your idea of only a partial slab is definitely more appealing...:thumb:

It makes sense to have the areas with gravel for drainage. Thanks!


.... Have you considered just building a few cold frames instead to get your plants started?

Hi Art...

With the additions of plants I put in the ground today we have over 250 seedlings/plants in the ground. I think that cold frames or other smaller structures would not be large enough or we'd have to purchase/make too many. I appreciate the input though... :)

Thanks!!

Denise
 
Continued replies... :)

I am in the same climate, just a bit north east of you guys. So yea, useless in the summer but I am sure you know that. I am assuming your just thinking winter use.

Two considerations. I haven't built a green house but years ago I looked VERY SERIOUSLY into passive solar heating a house. Which is basically/very similar to a greenhouse. With our sunshine it can be subject to HUGE temprature swings. hot by day and can then freeze at night. So you will have to heat it or loose you plants to freezing.

One thing to consider is passive heat storage. There are lots of ways to do this. Concrete and water are two common methods. I have read about pits under the buildings filled with LARGE stones. Hot air was pushed through the stones to heat them in the day and keep the temp down in the building. Then at night the air from the warmer rocks help to keep the building warm.

Same idea but use 55 gallon drums painted dark and filled with water. In the direct sun they heat up and then give off that heat at night. They can be used as stands with plant on top too. Or put on a back wall out of the way but in the sun. There are a lot methods and I am sure there are new ones I have not heard of.

It's a lot of work but if you can insulate the windows at night that will hep keep the temperature swings down too.

If all this interests you I would suggest Googleing "Passive Solar". Bet you can find lot of on houses and some on greenhouses. It is the same principle for both though.


Jeff,

Our greenhouse will primarily be used for starting plants for the next season's garden. I would also like to be able to store Boston Ferns, other various hanging planters and miscellaneous house plants over the winter. They do not seem to do well in the house at all so I end up keeping them in the garage. With only north side window exposure they are not happy in there either... :(

The passive solar concept is very interesting.. and I do plan to research it further. Thanks!!

hi Denise.

I can give you all kinds of info regarding greenhouses....

I have built them, grown in them, and torn them down, and then built some more.

Air volume is key, Since you are in GA, make sure you have lots of air flow through the greenhouse.

this means some sort of roof venting and side venting.

anything in the 12 x12 size range is going to heat up really quick on warm days and get really cold on cold days.

if I were you I would go 8' side walls. with a 12/4 pitch for the roof. I would also try to incorporate a Ridge Vent that can open and close. Actually you could make the entire roof a vent.

If you go to www.van-wingerden.com you can see an example of this type of ventilation on their intro page.

It's basically just a rack and pinion mechanism that opens and closes the roof.

If you need any questions answered just call me or pm me.

joe


Joe,

I have to agree on the air flow. I have been in a couple of greenhouses in this area that did not have a good flow of air. It can be wicked...:eek:

Thanks for the valuable information...:) I may take you up on your offer down the road and give you a shout!!


Ralph,

Thanks for the link... :)


Denise
 
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