Going Green??

Bill,

What you have described is extremely interesting. I do want to learn more about the greenhouses you've built. Do you have any pictures you could share?

I really like this entire concept and may reach out to you further for more information if that's alright... :)

Thanks so much!!

Denise
 
Denise, I know that Van Wingerden ghse is overkill. I posted it for the visual, but try to incorporate a ridge vent and a some side venting.

joe
 
Joe,

I believe that would be necessary. It would give the upper area of the greenhouse better ventilation in the summer. Box fan vents on each end would be good too.

Thanks!!

Denise
 
Stinkin' Garden

i don`t see no stinkin` garden;)


tod...

I've added more plants and rows with seed since these were taken but this will give you an idea of the size of the garden as well as the soaker hose assembly.

We begin at the side of the Studio... :D:D This is where the water supply comes from.

DSCN8588.jpg

The pic below was taken from the west end of the garden. At the east end there are 10 - 30 ft rows on the first soaker zone. The maximum length for any 1 soaker zone is 600 ft per zone.
The second zone is on the south side of the garden. That zone covers 5 - 115' rows.
The third zone covers the raspberry and blueberry plants (foreground) as well as the watermelon hills at the west edge of the garden and a long asparagus row on the north side of the garden.

DSCN8583.jpg

Here's another shot from the west side of the garden.

DSCN8584.jpg


The last step before putting mulch/straw down is to pin the hose on the side of the row. This allows the water to soak directly into the hill. The mulch/straw will keep the water from evaporating quickly and will also help keep the weeds down.

DSCN8587.jpg

We will be adding a 4th zone to the center area of the garden and then adding timers to keep the watering times uniform.

So there's the stinkin' garden tod...:D:D

I would have taken more pictures today but worked outside until it started pouring ... :(

Thanks!!

Denise
 
That's going to be a FINE looking Garden, Denise.:thumb: It looks like it's large enough to keep "Princess" and her clan busy FULL Time keeping those Pesky Long Eared Carrot Chompers under Control.:D
 
Why to go Denise!!!! That should yield some great food stuffs. Hope all is well and try to keep Marty from working himself into the ground. I hope fishing was restful.
 
Joe,

I believe that would be necessary. It would give the upper area of the greenhouse better ventilation in the summer. Box fan vents on each end would be good too.

Thanks!!

Denise

If you go ridge vents, or entire roof vent, you won't need exhaust fans.

The exhaust fans will work if you have fans on one end and a vent on the opposite end. However, given your ghse size, you may not get any benefit from an end vent. A roof fan(s), in lieu of a ridge vent would work.


Also think shade cloth, or greenhouse white shade paint for the roof, southern, and west exposed glass. Shade cloth can come in varying degrees of shade, ie 20 pct 30 pct 50 pct 85 pct etc.

The Greenhouse Shade Paint, will wash off over time. It's usually good for a growing season.
 
Ok, so, onward and upward,

A few notes about situation. I keep saying a greenhouse is in some ways like a shop, the bigger the better. But it's also true that the structure should be as simple as possible. That's why I've never been fond of those automatic vent openers. If you depend on them, and something unforeseen goes wrong, and they don't open, you can literally lose an entire greenhouse worth of plants in one day, which means losing a whole season.

You really will be happiest if you keep it as simple as possible. I've known water gardeners who go for every kind of gadget, and can discuss with you the nitrogen cycle in excruciating detail, along with a cure for every little step. These people invariably give up on their ponds. Others just have a pump and a rock filter, and enjoy their ponds for years.

Sealing ridge vents in a double walled greenhouse is a major problem. If anyone can solve that problem, Marty can, but why introduce the complexity? You want a greenhouse whose total heating cost in winter is one box of candles. All the candle does is to get the air moving, so there are no cold spots of dead air. You're actually relying on stored heat in the ground, and in the water, as well as the warmth of the ground underneath the pond. There's plenty of heat there, even for tropicals, as long as you have a closed system. Get too fancy with vents and things, and pretty soon you're into the world of heaters, and moisture control devices, and you find yourself a specialist in climate control, instead of being a gardener... ;)

Now, the big question: north/south or east/west. Which way does the ridge line run in a free standing greenhouse? Most people will tell you to run it east/west. Hard to argue with that, the long side gets the most direct light, you can make the north wall solid, since the sun never shines that way, etc. I've done it both ways, and I'm here to tell you I actually prefer north/south. If you do it east/west, every single one of your seedlings will be a 'leaner'. Not by much, but sometimes more than a little. Not only that, but a greenhouse isn't really a microclimate... it's a bunch of little microclimates, and that's a good thing. It's actually easier to manipulate them in a north/south greenhouse.

Ok, so utilities. You need water and power in there. 12/2 w/ground is all I've ever run to a greenhouse, and it's plenty for lights, pump, fans, and music. Water's trickier. Standard buried PVC is fine, but make sure it's buried at least a foot all the way to the greenhouse (two feet is better). This will keep the water cool in summer and warm in winter. But once it gets in there, you have a problem. Plants, especially seedlings, will go into temperature shock, and the greatest cause of that is watering that's too hot or too cold. That's why you need some kind of reservoir. I prefer a large (50+ gallon) plastic trash can with thick walls, so I can attach a garden faucet at the base. You want the hose to go into the top of that, and you want to keep the cover on (just to make it harder for the mosquitoes.) Keep it full, and use that water for your plants. The bottom of it should be at the height of the benches, or a little higher. It's useful to put a *very* light dose of something like miracle grow in there, since you'll be using a soilless mix for all your plants.

Before I give up for the day, just a word about actual use. I think I've said before that southern gardening is not like northern gardening. Here in the frozen north, what I miss the most is three season gardening. Here, we only have one season. Down there, you have spring into very early summer. Then you have a dead time in midsummer, when being out in the garden after say 9 am is an activity only for the most dedicated. Then, in early august, it's time to start seeds for the summer/fall season, when you can get an entire second crop. Then, once the frost hits, you can have an entire growing season inside the greenhouse. I miss that. A lot. Here, all I can do is mulch the banana trees, and hope they'll come back (they did this year). There, I could start the bananas form seed in winter, grow them outside, dig them up and plant the stalks in the ground in the greenhouse, and then when spring comes plant them back outside, and get fruit on them. There are lots of semitropical options the greenhouse will give you. You mentioned boston ferns. Well, pick your favorite, with the growing habit you like best. Build a two foot by two foot by 4 inch box, fill it with soilless mix. Now, take that fern you like, give it a hair cut, cut the root ball into one inch squares, and plant those in the box. You will never have to buy another boston fern again... when you need one, just cut a four inch chunk out of there, pot it up, and refill the hole with potting mix... ;)

Ok, I think that's enough for one day... as you can tell, I could go on and on... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
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A number of years ago, someone did some study about pressure treated wood.

There was some off-gassing of the chemicals and it wasn't healthy.

the recommendation was and is.... use Redwood, Cypress or Cedar.

joe
 
Joe,

This is quite true. Even though the "recipe's" changed over the last couple years, it's still kind of icky, and it's worth taking into consideration. The argument I've always made (and I realize it's not wholly accurate) is that since the wood is trapped between the walls, it's not as bad as it could be. Probably the best argument is that the vast majority of the time, the green house is being ventilated, with the fans blowing a literal wind through it.

But you're right: back when I was a smoker, I used to go in there of a winter's day, and smoke and work on the plants. Others thought I was crazy for 1). smoking in a closed environment where chemicals existed and 2) exposing a closed environment to tobacco mosaic virus. They were probably right on both counts, even if I never had any *apparent* problems... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
Joe,

This is quite true. Even though the "recipe's" changed over the last couple years, it's still kind of icky, and it's worth taking into consideration. The argument I've always made (and I realize it's not wholly accurate) is that since the wood is trapped between the walls, it's not as bad as it could be. Probably the best argument is that the vast majority of the time, the green house is being ventilated, with the fans blowing a literal wind through it.

But you're right: back when I was a smoker, I used to go in there of a winter's day, and smoke and work on the plants. Others thought I was crazy for 1). smoking in a closed environment where chemicals existed and 2) exposing a closed environment to tobacco mosaic virus. They were probably right on both counts, even if I never had any *apparent* problems... ;)

Thanks,

Bill

Lots of things to comment on ....

First, in an earlier post your recommended poly on the outside and the inside.

Put both on the outside and use a small squirrel cage fan to blow aire between the layers. Use outside air. It is also really easy to slide the second layer over the first. :)

Secondly, fans burn electrons and Denise says she wants to go Green. (sorry couldn't resist);)

but, seriously in a small building I would ventilate naturally... Heck I wish I could retrofit my 12000 foot house with ridge vents. Not only can you control temps, but you can also better control humidity.

If one goes with a full roof vent, then you also benefit from the entire light spectrum. double Poly will never get you there. I know. some of my houses are double poly while others are tempered glass.

Nicotine!!!!

It's a botanical so you can say you are organic. I frequently use Nicotine bombs in the greenhouses. They kill all sorts of greenhouse bugs (as well as cats -- my dad once bombed a greenhouse where a cat snuck in).

Back in the old days.... 1920's 30's, my grandfather used to wet tobacco leaves and then smolder them in the greenhouse.
 
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That's going to be a FINE looking Garden, Denise.:thumb: It looks like it's large enough to keep "Princess" and her clan busy FULL Time keeping those Pesky Long Eared Carrot Chompers under Control.:D

Thanks Norman... :)

Well the shop Princess is no longer around and only one of her 'clan' remains. As far as those wascally wabbits?? I think we're going to put up a fence to help keep them (and other critters) out. Not a permanent fence... as the garden may grow a big larger next year... but just a barrier to slow down the traffic.... :rolleyes:

Denise
 
Why to go Denise!!!! That should yield some great food stuffs. Hope all is well and try to keep Marty from working himself into the ground. I hope fishing was restful.

Hey Joe... :wave:

We just replaced our freezer a couple of months ago.... when we did that I told Marty that when the veggies come in we're gonna need to get another one to hold just veggies... :)

Thanks!!

Denise
 
I can't tell you much about a green house but I can tell you that there is a book on gardening that will help you plant as much as you'll ever need to eat & give away in a whole lot less space & cut down a lot on the work involved to take care of it. You'll eat good have beautiful flowers, Herbs & vegetables that work together to help each other grow & protect each other etc & a whole lot less work in less area to take care of.

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/
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I agree with Bart that this is a great book. Our vegetable gardens have been organizede roughly using many of the methods outlined in the original edition of this book ever since it was first published about 25 years ago.
 
Wow, this is fascinating. Nothing at all like greenhouses I know.

:lurk: Tell us more, Bill.
I'm with you Art and I expect to learn a lot from this thread.

By the way, I also worked in greenhouses for a couple of summers. It was in the Holland Marsh when I was 13 and 14 and I can tell you that, the day that I got promoted to the greenhouse from weeding carrots and other vewggies in the fields, was one of the happiest days of my life.
 
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