Animal Husbandry and Common Sense

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I don't get upset very often, but with this down-turn in the economy, I thought people getting back to raising their own livestock would be a good thing. I belong to a Homesteading Forum as well and I just got done answering 3 or 4 questions regarding common sense approaches to raising goats, chickens and calfs.

I am wondering if we are just out of touch with animal husbandry. One woman wanted to know if it was okay to basically not feed her goats, try to milk them when it was convenient and leave for 4-5 days at a time. I just wanted to scream through the computer "If you don't have time to properly care for animals...DON'T GET THEM."

I am sorry for the rant here, but it just bugs me that people don't understand simply animal husbandry rules. I like to check on my animals at least once a day. I know some animals like sheep and cattle are pretty self-sufficient this time of year, but still I think its just common sense to check on them. They might be stuck in a fence, or have bottle jaw or some other ailment. I also know that they are basically employees of mine converting green grass into red marbled meat, and that some day I will be eating that meat. Still a well fed, well cared for animal not only is morally right, they also taste better. Just because you are going to eventually slaughter them, does not mean you can't treat them good and care for them properly.

As I said, I thought people being driven to raise their own food would be a really good thing, but I am beginning to wonder if maybe we as a society have just gotten too lazy to care for them, or lack the time to properly care for them. I know no one on here is like that, but if you run into people like this, try and convince them to carefully consider livestock and their needs (feed and time wise) before bringing them home. I am afraid livestock rescue missions will be over-run in the next year or so.
 
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Hi Travis.

I believe that all this comes from some sort of romantic vision of what is a farmer's or livestock farmer life.

Animals eat every day as we do, and they do no take holydays, crops need to be taken care of, the soil prepared, the seeds planted, the plagues controlled and at the end harvested, and they do not take holydays also.

Having a pet is not breeding livestock, while people are not shy of picking up their dogs dung, if they had to shovel manure for a whole day maybe that romantic vision would get more down to earth, and they wouldn't go asking those questions.
 
There was a story of a man who had a horse that pulled a cart the man sold items from. Being a frugal man, he decided to save money on the feed he bought for the horse. So, one day, he cut down the amount of feed just a tiny bit. A few days later, he cut it down some more. This went on, apparently successfully, for several weeks. Then the day came that the man decided the horse did not need feed at all anymore. He went out to hitch up the horse to the cart for the daily rounds. The horse was dead.
 
There was a story of a man who had a horse that pulled a cart the man sold items from. Being a frugal man, he decided to save money on the feed he bought for the horse. So, one day, he cut down the amount of feed just a tiny bit. A few days later, he cut it down some more. This went on, apparently successfully, for several weeks. Then the day came that the man decided the horse did not need feed at all anymore. He went out to hitch up the horse to the cart for the daily rounds. The horse was dead.

Wow Frank, apparently that guy did not read "Grass Fed Cattle" Its a book that talks about that very thing. That is, he changed his calving season so that it was in the middle of summer, that way his calfs would be big enough to survive the cold winter, but not so big that they ate a lot. He then would make them forage all winter on the dead, dying grass UNDER the snow, making them eat snow for water intake.

His theory was, yes they lost weight in the winter, but he saved so much on feed, that by the time the grass started growing again, the cows would eat enough grass to make up for their weight loss in the winter.

Now it sounded alright, but having cows in the winter without feed in Maine would never work. First off, the neighbors would rat you out and they would take the cows.

Second we get 4 feet of snow here. Cows could never forage for food 4 feet under snow, much less move through the snow.

Third, it would take 2 million acres to raise cattle on dead grass in the middle of winter.

Of course this guy made most of his money selling books (and I was the dope that bought one from him as well so how can I kick on him on that huh?) But I don't think it came from raising cattle for a living. One good old fashioned winter and his theory would be blown out of the water. It was an interesting book otherwise, but you really had to glean the good from the bad.
 
Travis,

I'm going to PM you a story that actually happened to a family member of mine. I wouldn't put it out for public display here. It would violate the rules.

That said, all to often when these things happen I really think a lot of folks are just ignorant of what it takes to raise animals. There is a distinct difference between being ignorant (unknowledgeable) and stupid (incapable of learning). A lot of folks have this misty eyed dream of farming and really don't realize how much knowledge it takes to be a "dumb farmer". I come from a long line of farmers....they are typically vets(animal doctors), chemists(fertilizers, insecticides), electricians, welders, heavy equipment operators, mechanics, manual laborers....and oh yes....fathers, wives and husbands too. Equal rights came to the farms long before it came to the cities, I suspect. Farm wives fill in and assist and have always done so.

I really think it ignorance....not knowing any better, most of the time.

JMHO.
 
I used to get the Stockman's Grass Farmer newspaper every month, but I had to stop getting it. The editors and such had good quality articles, but it got to the point where they were buying stories from anyone and everyone and over time the newspaper got to be ½ good stuff and ½ unsubstantiated thoughts and ideas from people that had no clue about farming.

This one article was from a woman that had no clue what she was talking about. She went on for 2 pages about how cows could be used to clean up roadside ditches and other vegetation problems instead of using pesticides.

Well if she did a bit of research she would have realized cattle would be the last animal to use. They like grass and grass only. Sheep are the browsers that PREFER weeds. They also flock together and can be held into a tight, natural mower configuration, not to mention grazing so low that they will kill the vegetation if left their long enough. (cattle graze at 5-6 inches) A bit more research would have proven that in NH they use sheep to graze under powerlines to kill the vegetation where people do not want herbicides to be used.

It was just a poorly written article, with endless thoughts from someone who did no research. After reading those articles month after month I just gave up on it. Countryside Small Stock Journal is another periodical you should read sometime Frank. That will make you laugh as well. Same content.
 
Good story, Travis. Yes, there are a lot of misconceptions about raising farm animals. I really get a kick out of old timers who have been around cattle all their lives but still believe the old, unfounded, tales. One, I know won't cut except when the stars are in the sign of the foot. (whatever that means. astrological thing.) Many others absolutely will not touch a bull on the head for fear it will make him go crazy and stomp you to death. I have rubbed and petted many a bull on the head. Like any other animal, once they get accustomed to being touched they calm down and actually like being petted. Another is that once a cow/bull is halter broke they never forget it and can always be easily led, even years later. Now, that is real....uh...bull deposit. If you break an animal to halter, they need to be led periodically to keep them trained to lead. Been there, done that and been dragged around enough to really know. The animals are OK. Its the folks that are funny critters. ;)
 
Travis,
When I was born, my father was a share-cropper and did that until he left the farms in the mid '50s. I left a couple of years earlier when my folks split up and never went back. Farming is darn hard work and I don't want to work that hard. I admire those who do and have lots of respect for them. My step father was a rancher that ran about 400 head of brood cows on about 500 acres and did so until he was 95. He knew each and every one of his cows and made at least one trip around his pastures every day that he could. At 95 he'd had both hips replaced, a couple of vertebrae cracked in his back and was prone to pneumonia, but he still checked on his cows as regularly as he could and I would guess that if he had to skip a day, he rarely skipped more than two.
 
Travis wrote... and I added some edits...

... but I am beginning to wonder if maybe we as a society have just gotten too lazy to care for them, or lack the time to properly care for them. I know no one on here is like that, but if you run into people like this, try and convince them to carefully consider ... their needs (feed and time wise) before bringing them home. I am afraid ... rescue will be over-run in the next year or so.

Apologies for the tweaks on your message... but with a few here and there, you could have been referring to my thoughts on people who get dogs and don't take care of them. When they get sick or old, dump them at the pound to a certain death instead of trying to help them as you would any member of the family. When they are past hope, do people try to give them the dignified passage they deserve? No. I'm taken aback on a regular basis with how disposable our society has become.

And indeed, rescues are over-run.

--MJ
 
Its a sad reality isn't it MJ? The sad thing was, my wife said the same thing.

"Oh there are people that will take the dog and nurse it along until he dies, you don't need to put it down."

That is just another way of getting out of your responsibilities. Its unfortunate, but dogs live short lives and we will most likely outlive them. That means at some point you got to do what's right, and not pawn that off on someone else.

As for livestock, I don't think people realize how much work there is involved in that and just don't plan for it. I kind of went the other way with this sheep thing, ending up with a 63 page Farm Plan, but granted its the start of a new farming venture and not just getting a few lambs to eat.

In the end I think this will work out. I just talked with a guy last night who is 72 years old and wants to sell his entire flock because of the price of grain. (fixed income) He's no more then 3 miles away so transportation is easy, and he even has a Ram that has not been with the group of Ewes yet so I can be getting a new crop of lambs next year. That should work out for me and him; that is, here is an older get getting out of the sheep business, and a new younger guy wanting to start one. In other words...

Holy bleep, Travis has got sheep!!
 
This is a tough thread. Anything dealing with animals brings out a lot of emotion from folks. Recently, in Arkansas, the mayor of a small town had a problem with more dogs in the shelter than the budget could handle. So, his solution, take them to the local garbage dump and turn loose. As you can imagine, major uproar. Lots of useless 'solutions' offered. My solution would not be liked by many. I would simply euthanize them. Those dump dogs became sick and starved quickly.
You mention cost of feed. That is skyrocketing and hurting many. Arkansas, and several other southern states, raise catfish. Now, for you Yankees, catfish is a table staple and some of the finest eating there is. But, currently, we are losing the catfish farms. The farmers are only being paid $8.00 a pound for their product. With the high cost of feed, raising those fish costs $9.00 a pound.
 
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