Sharpening System Comparison

Ken Easley

Member
Messages
114
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I've got 1 CBN wheel I've added to my 1800 RPM Grinder. An inexpensive Sheppach model sold by Craft Supplies for a short time. Almost bought into the Sorby belt system and briefly considered a Tormek. So, the starting assumption is the turner will only have one system. Here's a list of comments to hopefully start a couple of dialog's about all this stuff. Anyone have any comments on the Sorby belt system. Does the 1 inch belt grinder require any rewiring to get it to run in the right direction (a belt sharpener should run up, rather than down like a wheel, is that right, or is that just the Sorby version?) Special belts for HSS tools? I've heard if all you have is the Tormek it takes forever to sharpen a tool, but gets it really sharp. Love to hear comments on what you guys use and really like. Regarding my CBN, I've got the 180 grit, 2 inch wide version and it really is much easier to sharpen a tool. Zero bouncing around, wider surface to roll a gouge around on. I'd really like to have the 80 grit for a bit faster grinding when doing a bit of shaping rather than sharpening. I've seen the Sorby demo'd and it looks just as easy with the advantage of changing grits and materials (I think they make CBN and Diamond belts.)

thanks in advance,
Ken
 
It's true the wet grinders are a lot slower, it gets even worse with tools that are cryo, or something like the Thompson tools. But it's also true that they give an incredible edge. That said, I usually go top the slow speed dry grinder for speed....but I keep the Tormek handy just in case. I have CBN wheels on my shopping list, but I have to find some that will be short enough to fit my grinder's arbor; 1 1/2" might be too wide. I think D way sells some that are cut back just a little for shorter arbors.
 
The Tormek is the wrong tool for reshaping. It could easily take several hours. Mine is set to 800 grit so it will polish to a finish fit for a shave.
 
I did get a tormek style tool holder and added it to my variable speed dry grinder. Using the tormek setup tool, I can use all my tormek style jibs on it for reshaping, and then duplicate that angle exactly on my tormek clone for final, fine sharpening.
 
Brent, which tool bar setup did you get...I've often thought about that and haven't yet did anything about it. The Tormek jigs would be great on a dry grinder.
 
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Brent, which tool bar setup did you get...I've often thought about that and haven't yet did anything about it. The Tormek jigs would be great on a dry grinder.

I believe it was the TOR-BGM100 mounting kit. Looks like they may come with a mounting bracket now? When I got mine it didn't come with that so I just made up a stack of wood and used that to attach it to the grinder platform. Here's a picture of it with the setup jig and the thumbnail gouge jig.

20150325_102147.jpg
 
The Tormek is the wrong tool for reshaping. It could easily take several hours. Mine is set to 800 grit so it will polish to a finish fit for a shave.

I'll echo this. The Tormek is slow to reshape a tool, but once you have the profile you want, it's very fast to resharpen during a turning session.

My ideal setup would be a dry grinder with a CBN wheel and the Tormek jig holder for it, in addition to the Tormek itself. The dry grinder would be for rapid reshaping*, and the Tormek would be for day to day sharpening.




* Realistically, I can count on one hand the number of times I've wanted to reshape a tool. I like the profiles I've established on my gouges, and don't plan to change them. But if and when I buy new gouges, it'd be nice to have a faster way to shape the initial profile.
 
It seems every national demonstrator has there own way of sharpening. Hard to know what way to go. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that which tool, which jig, which grind, which lathe, don't matter as much as just having a sharp tool. I'm trying to refine that process to make it as easy and fast as possible. That's why all these questions. I want to set up my last sharpening station. At least until the next technology comes along. (Laser sharpening maybe?) So, a couple more questions.

How do the Tormek jigs compare to the wolverine in use? Better? Same? And still no comments on the Sorby system. Maybe it's just not that popular? A couple of years ago the American Woodturner Magazine had an article on turning a Harbor Freight belt sander into a sharpening station. I then heard that it didn't really work. Anyone try this?

Anyone regularly hone tools on a leather (or other type) wheel?

I think if the Tormek jigs are alright, that combo Vaughn mentioned sounds like a winner. Still two systems though. And both of them somewhat expensive.
 
To be honest, I think it's hard to pick a loser between the Tormek and the Wolverine jigs. They are both good, though the Tormek may offer a little more precision (on some of them). I can do a curved edge on my skew with the Tormek, not so with the Wolverine (not saying it can't be done, but I can't do it). All the Tormek jigs grip the tool above the handle, and on some tools the Wolverine lets the handle sit in a cradle, to me waving the handle around while sharpening can be sometimes awkward. They are both good, just different. I don't have a leather wheel for my turning tools, but i do have a leather plate for my Worksharp that I use on my bench chisels regularly while I'm working. I think it helps a lot. Sorry I don't have the Sorby sharpener. I think Brent's's combo might be the best compromise (maybe add a CBN wheel), I still have the tool bar holder on my shopping list. But let me add, I'm far less experienced at sharpening turning tools than the others so my opinions are still being shaped on a daily basis.
 
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I can speak to a belt sharpening system, but not to the Sorby. I had a 1" belt sander. I just got the sharpening belts and leather belt from Lee Valley. I rigged up the Wolverine to work with it for consistency's sake. Works very well and was well within budget. I did add a cured platen for hollow grinds but that slips out easily to use the flat platen. I also use a section of the belt unsupported by a platen. Just depends on what I am sharpening. So what is different with the Sorby?

That said, I have lots of sharpening gear and am always interested ins something new. Sharp is the objective. The path there is varied. My belt system is called upon for lathe, carving and knife tools. I have a very old (think outstanding bearings) high speed 6" wheel grinder. A power grinder that makes short work of removing tons of metal. Not necessarily a finesse machine. And I have a wide variety of sticks, stones (oil and water), plates, files, etc. I also have a WorkSharp and a Drill Doctor. Each serves a purpose.

I have used the Tormex machine and once had a water wheel sharpening system. Turned out to be not impressed. I have friends who also migrated away from the Tormex and other water wheel systems. A turner friend has a CBN and he is pleased. Unless I get an opportunity to use my lathe more, I am not likely to look into anything other than what I have.
 
Carol you make such excellent points. I can relate to the aspect that unless one is getting the time to play, having all the tools and gear in the world is pointless.
I have stopped buying loads of things i would like for this very reason.
For retired folk or for folk that mostly do one aspect of woodworking i get having a fined tuned excellent efficient system. I certainly dont see myself in the keep up with the Jones category. My focus now is enjoying what i have and getting more use out of what i have in each category.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
Carol, like you have had tried numerous sharpening systems. I have a unit with a large, slow (70 rpm) wet wheel. One day the wheel cracked. Not in use, it just cracked between uses and now is collecting dust. One of the best systems I ever used for knives was two cardboard wheels. One had a grit the other a rouge. The grit and rouge could be recharged periodically. But after the second time they would not peform as they should. I also do use the 1" belt and that seems OK, not great but OK, probably my technique. For turning tools I use slow (1750 rpm) white wheel with the Wolverine and that works great.
 
I agree with Fred - both the Wolverine and Tormek jigs are good stuff. I'd say the Wolverine system is more stout, but I still prefer the Tormek jigs, mostly because the bowl gouge jig is more precisely adjustable. Still, either system will produce a good finished product. I also like the fact that Tormek makes a variety of other jigs for things like chisels and knives and axes. Also, I typically remove the handles from my gouges when I sharpen them, which makes it easier (for me) to control the motion of the tool in the jig.

The key thing as I see it is using a jig - any jig - to keep the grind consistent. I know some turners who prefer to sharpen freehand, but with only one exception (Eli Avisera), I've not seen a freehand-sharpened tool that compared to a jig-sharpened tool. And all the non-professional free-handers I know tend to go through gouge metal about 10 to 20 faster than the rest of us, too.

...And still no comments on the Sorby system. Maybe it's just not that popular?...

I think it's because not a lot of folks use that system. I know several folks who use belt sanders with various jigs and get good results, but I don't know any who use the Sorby system. IMO it's like pretty much everything Sorby sells...a good product but seriously overpriced. (Apologies to the folks using Sorby tools, but you're paying a 50%+ premium just for the name on the handle.)

...Anyone regularly hone tools on a leather (or other type) wheel?...

The only turning tools I hone on leather are skews. I've tried the leather honing wheel on my turning gouges (I even have the special gouge profile leather wheel on my Tormek), but it seems to me that the little extra bit of sharpness doesn't last long enough to be a noticeable difference. I know other who disagree with that.
 
I only use my lathe intermittently (basically I am a flat lander), so I got a wolverine jig for my dry grinder. The Tormek took a while to get the wheels soaked up ready to use, and more time to clean out the tray after use. Anyone want to buy a Tormek system?

For my chisels, planes, and cooking knives, I have gone to a diamond plate system and water stones. DMT Extra Coarse for reshaping, Coarse if I have been neglegent, Fine for routine use (DMT does not have a Medium). Then 4000, 8000, and 13000 synthetic waterstones. I have green honing compound, but by the time I am through the 13,000 stone, it doesn't add much.
 
I agree with Vaughn about using a jig... before when I was free hand sharpening on the belt sander.. and it wasn't anything special, just a HF table top belt sander... I could get my tools sharp, but after a while, the grind was all messed up and they needed to be reshaped. I now have the slow speed grinder and Wolverine system... my tools stay sharp longer, are more consistently ground and my turnings have improved considerably.

BTW, Charlie, are you anywhere near where that bridge collapsed on I35 north of Austin?
Back in the 50's or early 60's, a truck hit a center support on a bridge over I45 between Fairfield and Corsicana... dropped the cross beam onto the top of his cab... he was hauling steel and the sudden stop also shifted the steel into the back of the cab... not sure which killed the driver.
 
As one that mostly does turnings I have the Wolverine and two CBN grinding wheels from D-Way tools . They do an excellent job of keeping my turning tools sharp. I use the 180 grit on gouges and the 80 grit on scrapers. Skewes I have a hate love realationship with get toughed up by hand on a diamond box type sharpener with four different grits. I have a fiber type hone mounted on a motor and use some kind of green goop on, it gets used some, especially on skews.
 
I use a white 8" 80 grit wheel which I got at a local tool supplier. I made a jig similar (I think) to the Wolverine, and have had more than satisfactory results with it. I use a 6" cotton wheel and polishing compound for final polishing. I have to rebuild my jig this year, but it's easy and inexpensive.
 
...
BTW, Charlie, are you anywhere near where that bridge collapsed on I35 north of Austin?
...

I had not heard about it and had to do a search. Fortunately we were not impacted... Salado is about an hour north of us - and basically the only highway between Austin and Dallas, so we take that highway too frequently. I hate to think how bad the traffic backup is.

While I was looking for bridge collapse on I35, up popped the collapse in St. Paul a few years ago. My brother-in-law had crossed that bridge earlier in the day.
 
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