Silly Question: rewiring the basement.

Bill Lantry

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Hey, folks,

We're finally getting around to it: the basement fireplace room. The space is about 16 x 24. Eight weeks ago, Doorlink moved a box down there. This simple act led to all new shelves in the storage hallway, a completely revamped furnace/storage room, an extremely large county large item pickup (it took me near on a week just to haul all that stuff up to the side of the road), and I just finished the last set of shelves down there today. Whew! ;)

Which means it's time to start on the next project: wiring, then insulation, then drywall, then mantle. Some phone pics of the space:

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These are just to give you some idea of what we're up against. That first blurry one was looking south. Here's the southeast corner:
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Standing at the exterior door, looking towards the north wall:

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The west staircase, coming down from the Kitchen, and leading to the room of #3 son:



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The mantle itself:


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And of course, this wouldn't be complete without a picture of our hostess:


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Questions in the next post. Thanks for watching so far...
 

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So, OK: here's the thing:

If you look closely, you can see I've installed some canister lights in the ceiling. I've got six up, need to add two more, so I have two zones of four. That's one circuit, two switches. One more light on that circuit (the stairwell ceiling light) so one circuit, three switches, 9 bulbs total. Does that sound too extreme?

Next, the outlets. I'm told the standard is twelve outlet boxes per circuit? 2 on the north wall, three on the east (fireplace) wall. Two on the south, three on the west. That circuit will also carry the switch for the exterior light above the door. Again, too extreme?

So, what cool things can I do, or plan for? For the last few years, I've been putting in motion sensor switches, and they save a ton of money when you've got boys in the house who constantly forget to turn off lights. (they also mean I don't have to hear Doorlink quietly ask, "Who left the lights on?" But I'm not sure they're appropriate for that room, since there will be game playing, and tv and movie watching, etc. Or am I misreading?

Second, one hot new thing is those outlets with a three prong hole on the bottom, and a USB charger on the top. Those might be cool...

I always want to wire for a future digital projector, even if the actual one isn't in the cards right now. I'm thinking I just need the circuit, outlet, and some kind of cable in the ceiling. I hope.

One problem: the router is upstairs, which is diagonally the furthest it can get from that room. It seriously can't be more than 50 feet, but the boys have trouble getting signal down there. I wonder if there's a solution? It'd be cool if they could watch netflix down there.

One last thing: I was watching a video on installing lighting, and the guy had completely abandoned wire nuts. He was using little color coded clips instead. No fuss, no more muss, no more rattails. Has anybody ever used those things? The look pretty cool.

Thanks,

Bill
 
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Those are crazy looking connectors!

I'll tell you what, I just go done putting in all new outlets in a bedroom. All of the old outlets were 'quick connect' types where the wires just got pushed in.

All the ones I put in required running some new pigtails and using good old fashoned wire nuts and outlets that had brass and silver and green screws on them.

I know that other stuff is probably a lot faster, which would be good for the guys wiring up a whole house in a day.

I just kind of feel better with the way I did it than the other stuff.

Now let the pros chime in.
 
I'm so old fashioned, I hate those push in type outlets. I'd much rather connect to the side screws, where I can see there's a good connection... or change it, if I need to.

But I also mostly use 12/2 w/g, and I get awfully tired of twisting wire nuts over three wire connections. And getting everything to fit back in the box is a hassle, which means I tend to use those extra deep boxes, and that leads to it's own problems... ;)
 
Personally I've never been a huge fan of wire nuts, glad to see someone has come up with something new! Having said that I have exactly zero experience with either of the solutions you linked to, but generally I've found crimp connections to be an easier thing to get a solid connection on.

For the WIFI issue - while you have the walls open, run 3-4 cat-6 wires - yes that is more than you should ever need but wire is pretty cheap and its easy to run while things are open. Run at least a couple to each point where you will have a projector or TV setup and if it doesn't line up well with the tv setup run a couple more to where you can hide another access point. That way you can put another WAP down there and if you want to use netflix or buy a roku or whatever you can use the hardline back to the main entrance and don't have to share wifi bandwidth for it.

I don't have any real wisdom on the electric stuff other than to say add up the possible draw and run the # of circuits accordingly. Lights seem to continue to get more efficient so I'm less stressed about packing them onto a single circuit than I used to be - but again do the math; personally I don't think 9 is to much. For the projector setup - I might budget a circuit for that if you can (assuming it will be shared with some backend sound system and perhaps other AV equipment which can be a bit on the hungry side) - yeah its probably overkill but I've never heard anyone complain that they had a circuit with to much available power; and several that have figured the other way. What sort of cable to run to the projector itself... well that gets complicated - can you somehow leave in a raceway or large conduit from a back [closet/whatever] so that you can adjust in the future? Being able to run the AV cable and the electrical to be NOT in the same conduit (or indeed not plumb parallel) would be very advantageous

Not sure on the automatic lights... I guess I'd make sure the timeout is adjustable within reason; they put them in our office and initially we'd have to stand up and wave our hands every 10 minutes to keep the darn things on which was great for not getting computer butt but not so great for productivity.. I might consider a set of "mood" lights on another switch for when you're watching movies so you can turn the main lights off and just have enough light to get up and get a malt pop/release the previous of the same (I wouldn't put those on motion cause.. well you're normally gonna be pretty immobile)... I suspect the gamers might be ok with the lower light setup but I might take an evening to watch them and see how much they (don't) move first and see. Having the lights flip on and off "randomly" is annoying at best.

I'll shut up now and let someone who knows what they're talking about weigh in :D Looks like a fun project though.
 
Good project you have going there. Fortunately, you know what you are doing. I need help, lots of help, when doing elekitriks. :eek:
There are some good super routers on the market. My son had one blow out in a recent storm. :eek: His replacement will include a protector. If you would like to know what he got, I'll find out.
 
I have never seen those connectors before,they look interesting for sure. I might add to be sure to use push in connectors with only solid wires, not stranded. I was never a fan of the push in connectors on recepticals, I found that they can lose contact after a while, so I opt for the screw terminals.
 
Never use a push in connector, if you can't get to it later. Electricity involves heat and heat reduces spring pressure over time. Push in connectors use springs.

Use wire nuts and pre-twist the wires first, then install the nut over the twist. Righty tighty.

A proper 20 amp circuit and hold up to 16 devices. Little more, but 16 is about normal and where most folks stop. Devices do not include switches. Try not to daisy chain the receptacles together, make a pigtail and hook to that. If the device goes bad, the rest will still work. Leave plenty of wire in the box, 6" is code if I remember right, from out the front of the box.
 
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I have never seen the new connectors, but love the idea. I have had more trouble with wire nuts than with the push in connectors... it is not just spring tension against the wire, but a trap that digs into the side of the wire - which is why you can only use solid wire and you need to push the release to get the wire out, not just pull hard on the wire (or if you can just pull the wire out, it wasn't installed right).

I replaced my $39 wireless router with an $80 wireless router, and got about twice the range in my house. And the specs suggested that I should have gone for the $150-$200 router. Running a wired outlet to the new room won't make people happy who want to use their Kindle, Nook, iPhone, iPad, etc. etc.

My son had been planning on a projector for his man-cave, but when it came time to buy, he got a better picture with less hassle using a large screen TV. In my mind, projector for large screen TV has become an obsolete technology. Even our woodworking club is planning on a large screen TV rather than the projector when the meeting room moves next year.
 
...I replaced my $39 wireless router with an $80 wireless router, and got about twice the range in my house. And the specs suggested that I should have gone for the $150-$200 router...

I ran into that same situation, and got the $179.00 Apple Airport Extreme. It solved ALL my in-house connection problems. It's multi-band 802.11n compatible. The furthest computer away from it is about fifty feet, but thru several walls and a floor. It still gets a 130mb connection.

My shop - in a separate building about 100+ feet away - gets a very weak (but usable) signal, but to enhance it, I added an Apple "Airport Express" as a signal booster, and now I get a 130mb connection out there, too.

YMMV...
 
I'm like Steve on the wire nuts, but use the ones that have the hex head so I can either use a nut driver or drill to speed up the twisting, especially when doing a room or house full of them.

On the wifi. What router do you have?. You may be able to boost the signal, most are set pretty low from the factory, but like Ryan said, if it's a gaming room, I'd almost hard wire for a second wire access point/hub and use the access point as a hub (wireless and wired) for connecting the gaming and video devices to.
 
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I replaced my $39 wireless router with an $80 wireless router, and got about twice the range in my house. And the specs suggested that I should have gone for the $150-$200 router. Running a wired outlet to the new room won't make people happy who want to use their Kindle, Nook, iPhone, iPad, etc. etc.

Yeah but it enables you to put high volume traffic (like netflix, etc..) over the wire instead of the air and opens the option of adding another access point for local use which will (possibly) make them happy :D
 
The second one that Bill shows is what we use in Japan, have been using for at least 20 years, they work very well, they hold the wire very well too, remember this is earthquake country!
 
So, what cool things can I do, or plan for? For the last few years, I've been putting in motion sensor switches, and they save a ton of money when you've got boys in the house who constantly forget to turn off lights. (they also mean I don't have to hear Doorlink quietly ask, "Who left the lights on?" But I'm not sure they're appropriate for that room, since there will be game playing, and tv and movie watching, etc. Or am I misreading?

Listen to your gut. These are not appropriate for that room.
We have these in our big 3 story church addition. They are great for all the classrooms. But they are NOT great in the youth room where they sit in the dark and watch movies.
I suggest you stick with manual switches, with MAYBE an automatic switch just covering the stairwell, so you have hands-free light there when running up and down the stairs.

Second, one hot new thing is those outlets with a three prong hole on the bottom, and a USB charger on the top. Those might be cool...
Yeah, but are you SURE of each location? What happens when you rearrange and decide to put the charging station somewhere else? I'd recommend instead just putting in a few double-outlet boxes in areas where you think there might be a lot of plug-ins (ie: four outlets, not two) and investing in a couple of small surge bars with USB plugs in them -- I bought this Belkin myself.


I always want to wire for a future digital projector, even if the actual one isn't in the cards right now. I'm thinking I just need the circuit, outlet, and some kind of cable in the ceiling. I hope.

I'll echo the comment that a new plasma or LED flat-screen is probably going to make you happier, and be simler. I would bet that you find that a 42" TV, maybe one size bigger, will be plenty for a room that size.

One problem: the router is upstairs, which is diagonally the furthest it can get from that room. It seriously can't be more than 50 feet, but the boys have trouble getting signal down there. I wonder if there's a solution? It'd be cool if they could watch netflix down there.

I also would advocate for putting in cat5 while the ceiling is open. Netflix is a high-bandwidth thing. I don't think you'll want that over wireless to the TV. Oh, but by "upstairs" do you mean on the main floor (so it is accessible through this open ceiling) or did you mean on the 2nd floor (which makes running cat5 a lot more challenging.)

I'm not a huge pro on this, but I would agree that you should probably try and make the router more centrally located, and possibly a newer one if yours is more than 3-4 yrs old, in order to get a stronger signal.

Personally I try to keep as much of my network hard-wired as possible. My wife and I have both our main computers in the same room, hardwired to the router, ditto for the printers. The only wireless stuff we have is a floater laptop, and an ipod + tablet.


Okay, now that we've addressed your questions, how about my questions... why is that fireplace so HUGE!?!? The fire box looks lost in that huge sea of bricks that make up the fireplace.
I'm no fan of large masonry fireplaces. I covered mine up as best I could, and even daydreamed about ripping it out altogether. Instead we ended up putting an old church pew in that totally straddles the hearth. Needless to say, we almost never used it, and now never do.

Looking forward to the adventure!
...art
 
Steve, I have always twisted the wires together and then ran the wire nut on. Some packages tell you not to do this. Seems counterintuitive to me. But then, I also black electric tape my wire connectors to the wires.
 
I think it was Napoleon, wasn't it, who said "no battle plan survives contact with the opposing force?"

So I dashed off to home depot to pick up some electrical supplies, and to price some other things, when Doorlink called my phone:

*

ME: Hello, Beautiful!

SHE: Doc, buy me some oops paint while you're there.

ME: What in the world for?

SHE: I want to paint the storage hallway. And also the floor. See if they have floor oops paint.

ME: but it's paneling. It won't hold paint. And the floor is made of old linoleum squares. Paint won't stick!

SHE: That's what KILLZ is for. Do I have to call my other boyfriend?

*

So, yeah: we're painting the floor. And the paneling. Then we can move all the extra stuff in the main basement room into there, so we can work on the big room. I suppose it makes sense, in a Doorlink sort of way...

James, of course, insisted on helping:

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A good shot of the paneling and the flooring.

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Proof that she wears her pearls even when painting:

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He's happiest when making a mess:

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Yikes. Those are sliding doors:

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Sometimes, you just have to take a breather...

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Oh boy Bill I feel you pain. Can't tell you how many times I have a project I want/need to work on ans suddenly get sidetracked by SWMBO's plans...
 
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