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Ken, the real truth is, as hard as this is to say. I Dont know exactly what I need. I lack the experience to make a decision based on what I know.
Thats my problem.

My desires as far as woodworking, is to build indoor furniture out of fine hardwoods. Nothing else.
My motivation is not profit related.

A big percentage of my future plans, involve glue ups.

Im hoping the right choice in jointers will help me down this path.

Thats as honest as I can be about this subject.
 
allen levine said:
I Dont know exactly what I need.
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I can sense your frustration and I can also relate. I haven't been taking this hobby seriously for very long so the "newbie" days are not that far behind me. Like you, I want to make good quality furniture that hopefully will make me and others happy for a long time.

I will relate my experience and hope it will help. When I first joined a couple forums, everybody said get a jointer -and- get an 8". At the time I thought I would do more work with sheet goods; veneered plywood and such. So, I got a small 6" jointer even though I read tons of posts by folks upgrading to 8" machines.

It turned out I was drawn more to solid wood furniture and the 6" proved inadequate almost from day one. For edge jointing, table legs and smaller pieces it was fine but, as face jointing became a requirement (amazingly enough, tables need tops :D) it was lacking. Everything seemed to be just a bit wider than it would handle (thanks Murphy).

I sold the smaller machine and used a planer sled for about 18 months and saved my pennies. I picked up an 8" with a spiral head; partly because I never wanted to set jointer knives again and partly because I wanted a machine that would last me for a long, long time. It has met all my needs with very rare exception. On those occasions I can still use the sled but it has been quite awhile.
 
glenn has said alot in few words allen,, that spiral head he talks about is one nice option which i wish i had,, they are pricey but worth it for some.. you mentioned that you need 120 volt and i am not sure you have that option readily availble in a 8" jointer they need alittle more power.. the 220 power to your shop shouldnt be that much to get allen, but you know your electrical cost better than us.. what a spiral head does is they are four sided cutters and you just rotate them when they hit something they shouldnt or get dull.. and they will handle figured wood better than straight blades usually. or in better terms less tear out in your flattend surface.
 
Oh you silly woodworkers...you are missing out on the greatest pleasure of woodworking: LEARNING TO ADAPT.

In life you are given a small pile of cash that everyone is trying to take from you. It doesn't matter if its the power company selling you electricity, or in this case, buying a jointer. Poor ole Allen here has got some issues. He has only 120 volts of power in his shop and he has a limited budget to boot. Rather then fret about adding 220 volt power to his shop, finding the space for a bigger machine, or paying the extra money, he can simply buy a 6 inch jointer and learn to adapt his woodworking style to what he has for machinery.

Is someone going to die because he has to rip down a board? No Are there no alternatives but to face joint wide boards in woodworking? No Are their nifty tricks to extending a face jointed board on a smaller jointer? Yes

You can try to buy your way to perfection or you can make do. Personally I think Allen would be far ahead in the woodworking world if he got a smaller jointer,learned to read his lumber, rip it down to get into his smaller jointer with a mind to grain, figure and eliminating knots and other defects. Somewhere along the way he will also learn some crafty tricks, or find alternatives with other machines. In the long run he'll be better off with more stable narrow board glue-ups and by being forced to think through his project steps. That is, IF he has this mind set.

Remember the battle against materialism starts within. Its a lousy woodworker who blames the limitations of their tools, because they are only limitations if you let them be. Be creative people. Think your way through a limitation, don't buy your way out of it.
 
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Sorry for the above rant, but it irks me sometimes that in woodworking there is this mind-set that we have to have bigger and better all the time. I think that comes from the desire to see a project completed and the satisfaction that it brings. Perfectly understandable.

Myself I have been trying to enjoy just actually MAKING the project.
 
well, I dont have much of any tools, so I dont complain about lack of, and its not a money question either.
Its a how much skill do I have vs. what I understand, vs what I can handle.

I hear you Mr Travis, but this stuff is all unfamiliar territory to me.
 
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Travis Johnson said:
Oh you silly woodworkers...you are missing out on the greatest pleasure of woodworking: LEARNING TO ADAPT...
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I'd say that using a planer jig for 18 months qualifies very well as adapting. (And one man's pleasure might be another man's pain.) Yes, Glenn could cut the stock down, or even use hand planes and cabinet scrapers, but an 8" jointer does what he wants, and gets it done faster, giving him more time on the shop to do other things. I don't see the problem there. ;)

I personally don't think Alan will become a better woodworker by intentionally limiting his jointer choices to something that a large percentage of good woodworkers considers to be too small. He's not trying to buy his way to perfection...he's trying to equip a shop for the first time, hopefully with tools he won't want to upgrade in the near future.

I do agree there are some guys who go overboard on tool purchases. I can think of one guy I know in particular who has spent the last few years researching and nitpicking (ad nauseum) every tool purchase, and has built up an impressive collection of expensive tools. So far, though, I haven't I've seen any evidence that he's built a single thing with all those tools. Allen, on the other hand, has proven time and again that he doesn't let his tool selection stop him from taking on a woodworking project. He's just trying to move up to the next level of capabilities and abilities. :)
 
Vaughn McMillan said:
Allen, on the other hand, has proven time and again that he doesn't let his tool selection stop him from taking on a woodworking project. He's just trying to move up to the next level of capabilities and abilities. :)
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hurah hurah hurah, and dollars dont make the shop! the person using them does...and allen has my support completly...he and i have chatted alot and we have even disagred once:D but he still is in there kickun butte making the flat workers proud!!!!
 
Travis Johnson said:
Oh you silly woodworkers...you are missing out on the greatest pleasure of woodworking
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Allen,

Please don't pay any attention to the occasional counterproductive rant. ;)

As for me, I have a six inch jointer. They don't make the kind I have anymore, but it's the spitting image of this one:

g0452.jpg


You'll find its price range here. When I got mine, I drove up to York, PA, just to save shipping costs.

Do I wish I had a jointer like Glenn's? Absolutely. But I promise you this: even a modest one like mine will open a whole new level of woodworking to you. Most of the things I made before I had a jointer were frustrating nightmares. People will tell you you can build a jointer sled for your table saw (you can, and I did), or you can accomplish similar things with a good router table and fence (you can, and I did). But getting that jointer changed my entire woodworking experience, so much that I wouldn't even think of going without one now.

So, yes, buy the best one you can afford for the category, and an 8 is better than a 6, but having a 6 is a far, far better thing that you'll get now than you've ever gotten before... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
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Bill Lantry said:
Please don't pay any attention to the occasional counterproductive rant
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I'm not sure why you quoted me Bill, I just said everything you said. Allen does not have 220 volt power to his shop, and while at some point he may need and want 220 volt power, I am not convinced its absolutely necessary to go through the hassle of that now just to obtain a 8 inch jointer when a six inch would be plug and play.

I was not even referring to Allen in any way in this regard, I think we as experienced woodworkers tend to suggest bigger and better tools for inspiring woodworkers when there is nothing wrong with learning on smaller tools, or even older tools at that level. We tend to remember replacing our 6 inch jointers with 8 inch jointer, but tend to forget there was a learning curve we were going through when we did have the 6 inch jointer. All I am saying is don't be so concerned about the capacity and enjoy the learning curve.

As I said, if Allen can face and edge joint wood with an eye for grain, figure and defects, these 18 inch wide panels created with his 6 inch jointer will be a lot better then the 18 inch wide panels I can face joint with my 18" jointer. Bigger is not always better, developing an "eye" for woodworking, even on smaller machines, is the most important part.

(Incidentally I run both sides of the extreme on this issue. I don't have either a 6 inch or 8 inch jointer, rather I have a 4 inch jointer and an 18 inch jointer.)
 
most expensive straight bit I ever bought

The winner is the Powermatic 54HH, (helical blade, 6 inch)with a 66 inch bed, it will just fit into the 78 inches I have reserved for it.

HTC mobile base.

(I went to the tool guy to buy a straight bit)
 
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allen levine said:
The winner is the Powermatic 54HH, (helical blade, 6 inch)with a 66 inch bed, it will just fit into the 78 inches I have reserved for it.

HTC mobile base.

(I went to the tool guy to buy a straight bit)
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thats my boy allen giveum heck:):rofl::thumb::rofl: that was one spensive router bit...:thumb: now where are the pics bud!!!1
 
Powermatic helical :eek: NICE :thumb: Dust collection had better be next, because between that plainer and now jointer, dust is a gonna be flying :D
Congrats of the tool, now you better satisify the pic police :rolleyes:

Tom
 
What I have done to joint wide boards is to pop the guard off (this needs to happen when using the jointer for rabbetting, so isn't as scary as it sounds - however, don't do it if not comfortable), figure out the approximate mid point of the board width and set the jointer to joint a little past the midpoint. Then I'll joint the board on either side of the midpoint using successive passes until the face is flat. Expect some tearout on the "backwards" fed side of the face.

Likely you won't get the two halves of the face perfectly co-planar - there will be a little ridge in the middle. This is ok for now. Then use the planer. Start with the flattened face down to get a flat top, then turn the piece upside down to clean up tearout and the middle ridge on the planer.

If you ever are able to stop by on one of your passing through trips I can demonstrate this.

You said your jointer has a helical head. If by this you mean it has a helical journal head like the Byrd Shellix (many little carbide inserts as opposed to 2 - 4 helical blades) I don't know how well this technique will work. I know that rabbetting is not recommended using a Byrd Shellix style head (and, for that matter, rabbetting may be contraindicated with a helical blade head too - I don't recall exactly). My jointer has the straight blades.
 
pictures? Ill give you all the pictures you want.

but ya gotta wait like me till I get it delivered.(probably second week of jan, maybe first)
I need to spend some time making room for it, and I guess he has to get one delivered to him.(and assemble it for me)
Its going against the back wall, where I have the small pancake compressor.
I have to take all that other junk outta there.
 
Mark Kosmowski said:
What I have done to joint wide boards is to pop the guard off (this needs to happen when using the jointer for rabbetting, so isn't as scary as it sounds - however, don't do it if not comfortable), figure out the approximate mid point of the board width and set the jointer to joint a little past the midpoint. Then I'll joint the board on either side of the midpoint using successive passes until the face is flat. Expect some tearout on the "backwards" fed side of the face.

Likely you won't get the two halves of the face perfectly co-planar - there will be a little ridge in the middle. This is ok for now. Then use the planer. Start with the flattened face down to get a flat top, then turn the piece upside down to clean up tearout and the middle ridge on the planer.

If you ever are able to stop by on one of your passing through trips I can demonstrate this.

You said your jointer has a helical head. If by this you mean it has a helical journal head like the Byrd Shellix (many little carbide inserts as opposed to 2 - 4 helical blades) I don't know how well this technique will work. I know that rabbetting is not recommended using a Byrd Shellix style head (and, for that matter, rabbetting may be contraindicated with a helical blade head too - I don't recall exactly). My jointer has the straight blades.
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technique? I can use any help I get.

Im driving up to Buffalo end of January, heading up to Toronto(I wanna see if it really snows up in Canada), so Ill keep in touch when I secure the exact dates.
 
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